Not that I have seen tons, but the longest I have seen in the wild (Ontario) were approx. 3ft. A 4 ft LNG would be a very old fish, 5ft would be a freak of nature.
Long Nosed Gar MAX Size in Captivity?
- Thread starter Jush
- Start date
When I was stationed in Missouri, I once hung up a LNG that was just under 4'. She was pretty typical for what I believe to be the females in the shallows, with several present that were quite a bit larger.
Not that they'll get this big in most of our tanks, just that IME at least 4' LNG aren't that unusual in the wild.
Not that they'll get this big in most of our tanks, just that IME at least 4' LNG aren't that unusual in the wild.
I have seen LNGs at our local Bass Pro Shop, Ft. Myers, FL, which were at least 4' but could have been 4.5' or even 5'.
I assume they (along with most other humongous fish at Bass Pro, Cabela's, etc) are supplied by the Osage Catfisheries (Missouri, IIRC) and are grown in large outdoor ponds (again I assume), which is not really the wild, nor is really a glass box.
I have seen fisherman pics of about a 5'-er caught in Lake Ontario, upstate NY, roughly 1' of it is the nose of course.
My own experience is pitiful - never kept one for longer than a few years, the longest being 2.5'. They proved incompatible at such relatively small sizes with large catfish, such as TSN, RTC, and TSNxRTC, who'd prey on them sooner or later, while others I lost on the move from NY to FL.
I assume they (along with most other humongous fish at Bass Pro, Cabela's, etc) are supplied by the Osage Catfisheries (Missouri, IIRC) and are grown in large outdoor ponds (again I assume), which is not really the wild, nor is really a glass box.
I have seen fisherman pics of about a 5'-er caught in Lake Ontario, upstate NY, roughly 1' of it is the nose of course.
My own experience is pitiful - never kept one for longer than a few years, the longest being 2.5'. They proved incompatible at such relatively small sizes with large catfish, such as TSN, RTC, and TSNxRTC, who'd prey on them sooner or later, while others I lost on the move from NY to FL.
I have seen one. At the aquarium near my home theres a tank full of longnose between 4 and 6 ft. My point is they do not stay as big as spotted gar, they need more room
those are wild caught fish that are already that big when they take them. Most gars raised in captivity rarely keep growing after a few years old.
Like, Florida gar can grow to 3.5ft in the wild and it is not unusual to see 30-36'' fish in the wild. And they're the most kept species of gar in the hobby, but I've seen only a few that grew pass 24'' out of thousands that live long enough. There are some members here that have their Florida gar for over 20 years and they never hit 24''.
So, I don't think long nose gar can really grow more than 3-3.5 ft beeing kept in captivity since small.
He asked how big they could get. I gave the true answer. Could he keep one in a similar tank for a while? Sure. But, in the long run if its taken care of optimally itll need more room. Azuls can max out at 29" inches but usually dont pass 20" and over 24" is crazy, yet I still plan to house them in a tank that could handle that size. Red tail cats can exceed 4' and all but a few minority on this site try to shy people away from them unless they can offer that size of fish a home for its entire life. It's really not that hard to upgrade to a bigger tank and most good pet owners will naturally when they see a pet they care for is uncomfortable, so I like to prep people for that possibility.
My experience matches that of HungDang precisely.
Personal experience-based advice differ from the knowledge of experience of others and both yet differ from theoretical knowledge.
...
BW: He asked how big they could get. I gave the true answer.
TBTB: You answer is true but not realistic. I appreciate though that you explain them. It should be really helpful to the OP and for the posterity.
BW: Could he keep one in a similar tank for a while? Sure. But, in the long run if its taken care of optimally itll need more room.
TBTB: This is a theoretical supposition proven false by a wide practice. Optimal care equas not wild sizes when it comes to gars.
BW: Azuls can max out at 29" inches but usually don't pass 20" and over 24" is crazy, yet I still plan to house them in a tank that could handle that size.
TBTB: That's wonderful. Really. Per my nickname. ... Yes, my two 5-year azuls are precisely 18"-20".
BW: Red tail cats can exceed 4' and all but a few minority on this site try to shy people away from them unless they can offer that size of fish a home for its entire life.
TBTB: It's a game of balance and a golden medium. We want people to keep monster fish and don't want the fish to get abused. Each case is different but lately MFK has been getting much better at giving a balanced advice, IMHO anyway. We want at least to stay away from the extremes - the carelessness as in go ahead and do what you want, it will all work out eventually and the theoretical activists that say you need 10,000 gal for your 2" RTC from the getgo.
BW: It's really not that hard to upgrade to a bigger tank
TBTB: I realize we come from different planets. On mine big houses, big lots, big tanks, and fat money swads don't grow on trees
BW: ... and most good pet owners will naturally when they see a pet they care for is uncomfortable,
TBTB: Naturally wanting to is good and expected, agreed, but doesn't equal being able to, especially in the Western culture that aims to have people to live in debt and have a carrot dangling in front of them and a whip behind them. People "naturally" overextend themselves left and right because everyone is doing it and hopes for the best and then the best never comes or never really, the boss fires you, the wife's unhappy cuz you don't take her out enough to a restaurant or dancing and the last time you were on a romantic vacation was 5 years ago, the children need to be fed, clothed, bought gifts, phones, games, and educated, the bank needs the money back with interest, the cars break, the parents get sick, the house needs a new AC, the lawn needs a new mower, you name it... and your 2 foot, 5 year old RTC still sits in the same 180 gal since it was 2".
BW: so I like to prep people for that possibility.
TBTB: I hope communally we have tried our best
Personal experience-based advice differ from the knowledge of experience of others and both yet differ from theoretical knowledge.
...
BW: He asked how big they could get. I gave the true answer.
TBTB: You answer is true but not realistic. I appreciate though that you explain them. It should be really helpful to the OP and for the posterity.
BW: Could he keep one in a similar tank for a while? Sure. But, in the long run if its taken care of optimally itll need more room.
TBTB: This is a theoretical supposition proven false by a wide practice. Optimal care equas not wild sizes when it comes to gars.
BW: Azuls can max out at 29" inches but usually don't pass 20" and over 24" is crazy, yet I still plan to house them in a tank that could handle that size.
TBTB: That's wonderful. Really. Per my nickname. ... Yes, my two 5-year azuls are precisely 18"-20".
BW: Red tail cats can exceed 4' and all but a few minority on this site try to shy people away from them unless they can offer that size of fish a home for its entire life.
TBTB: It's a game of balance and a golden medium. We want people to keep monster fish and don't want the fish to get abused. Each case is different but lately MFK has been getting much better at giving a balanced advice, IMHO anyway. We want at least to stay away from the extremes - the carelessness as in go ahead and do what you want, it will all work out eventually and the theoretical activists that say you need 10,000 gal for your 2" RTC from the getgo.
BW: It's really not that hard to upgrade to a bigger tank
TBTB: I realize we come from different planets. On mine big houses, big lots, big tanks, and fat money swads don't grow on trees
BW: ... and most good pet owners will naturally when they see a pet they care for is uncomfortable,
TBTB: Naturally wanting to is good and expected, agreed, but doesn't equal being able to, especially in the Western culture that aims to have people to live in debt and have a carrot dangling in front of them and a whip behind them. People "naturally" overextend themselves left and right because everyone is doing it and hopes for the best and then the best never comes or never really, the boss fires you, the wife's unhappy cuz you don't take her out enough to a restaurant or dancing and the last time you were on a romantic vacation was 5 years ago, the children need to be fed, clothed, bought gifts, phones, games, and educated, the bank needs the money back with interest, the cars break, the parents get sick, the house needs a new AC, the lawn needs a new mower, you name it... and your 2 foot, 5 year old RTC still sits in the same 180 gal since it was 2".
BW: so I like to prep people for that possibility.
TBTB: I hope communally we have tried our best
I wasn't trying to shun anybody for keeping the fish they want, I was simply giving him the optimal scenerio. Whether its realistic or not, it is possible. He should be prepared for that. I wasn't saying it needs to be kept in any massive tank currently and I think thats how you took it, but, as with any pet, you shouldnt own a pet you wont be able to maintain should it grow to its maximum potential size. Once again, not saying he couldnt, just stating a general rule of responsible pet ownership. Inversely, could it stay smaller than optimal? Totally, a likely option, but theres still a chance.. and I wouldnt call the chance of a 5' fish exceeding 3' incredibly unlikely but itll more than likely be smaller than larger. And per saying I live on a different planet, I dont find that true at all. Im a journeyman carpenter who does not make any large amount per year, I get the fish and tanks I do by budgeting well and building a lot of things myself. Before you say being a journeyman gives me extra skills most people dont, aquarium construction and framing a house have almost nothing in common and I still end up spending dozens of hours watching how to's. My point is that, if you have the drive, and truly care, you can build or find things on craigslist for fractions of the cost to buy them. Example: in my area there are over 6 aquariums on craigslist over 300 gallons thatre all under $400. They just need a little buffing and filtration work. In the end my view is let people do what they want but be up front about the possibilities, just as you would with any pet, fish are no different. And your personal experiences, while Im sure are accurate, does not mean the fish will grow small. Nor does it mean me saying it could get big means it will be. But to be honest this seems way more of a deal than it should be, I gave a statement saying the size it COULD get to, you and Hong had different experiences, thats fine. But that doesnt change what it could grow to be.My experience matches that of HungDang precisely.
Personal experience-based advice differ from the knowledge of experience of others and both yet differ from theoretical knowledge.
...
BW: He asked how big they could get. I gave the true answer.
TBTB: You answer is true but not realistic. I appreciate though that you explain them. It should be really helpful to the OP and for the posterity.
BW: Could he keep one in a similar tank for a while? Sure. But, in the long run if its taken care of optimally itll need more room.
TBTB: This is a theoretical supposition proven false by a wide practice. Optimal care equas not wild sizes when it comes to gars.
BW: Azuls can max out at 29" inches but usually don't pass 20" and over 24" is crazy, yet I still plan to house them in a tank that could handle that size.
TBTB: That's wonderful. Really. Per my nickname. ... Yes, my two 5-year azuls are precisely 18"-20".
BW: Red tail cats can exceed 4' and all but a few minority on this site try to shy people away from them unless they can offer that size of fish a home for its entire life.
TBTB: It's a game of balance and a golden medium. We want people to keep monster fish and don't want the fish to get abused. Each case is different but lately MFK has been getting much better at giving a balanced advice, IMHO anyway. We want at least to stay away from the extremes - the carelessness as in go ahead and do what you want, it will all work out eventually and the theoretical activists that say you need 10,000 gal for your 2" RTC from the getgo.
BW: It's really not that hard to upgrade to a bigger tank
TBTB: I realize we come from different planets. On mine big houses, big lots, big tanks, and fat money swads don't grow on trees
BW: ... and most good pet owners will naturally when they see a pet they care for is uncomfortable,
TBTB: Naturally wanting to is good and expected, agreed, but doesn't equal being able to, especially in the Western culture that aims to have people to live in debt and have a carrot dangling in front of them and a whip behind them. People "naturally" overextend themselves left and right because everyone is doing it and hopes for the best and then the best never comes or never really, the boss fires you, the wife's unhappy cuz you don't take her out enough to a restaurant or dancing and the last time you were on a romantic vacation was 5 years ago, the children need to be fed, clothed, bought gifts, phones, games, and educated, the bank needs the money back with interest, the cars break, the parents get sick, the house needs a new AC, the lawn needs a new mower, you name it... and your 2 foot, 5 year old RTC still sits in the same 180 gal since it was 2".
BW: so I like to prep people for that possibility.
TBTB: I hope communally we have tried our best
This is not an argument to me. I view it as thinking together and exchanging opinions on equal footing.
BW: ... I was simply giving him the optimal scenerio.
TBTB: It seems we don't view words the same way. What you call optimal, I call the maximal extreme.
BW: ... I wasn't saying it needs to be kept in any massive tank currently and I think thats how you took it,
TBTB: I haven't. I am arguing for a reasonable and weighted, balanced and realistic approach.
BW: but, as with any pet, you shouldnt own a pet you wont be able to maintain should it grow to its maximum potential size. Once again, not saying he couldnt, just stating a general rule of responsible pet ownership.
TBTB: Agreed. Just would add that life's unpredictable and say gars live a very long time and actually can outlive their keeper. In this light, I don't know how to apply this general rule of responsible pet ownership. It seems good only on paper to me... if one is speaking beforehand for the whole expected lifespan of a fish, then none of us should get them. I think when we get a pet fish, we should go by the more or less foreseeable future to determine whether we are making a responsible decision or not. There is no sense in guessing for the next 10, 20, 30 or 50 years.
BW: ... My point is that, if you have the drive, and truly care, you can build or find things on craigslist for fractions of the cost to buy them. Example: in my area there are over 6 aquariums on craigslist over 300 gallons thatre all under $400. They just need a little buffing and filtration work.
TBTB: On my end I was thinking of 2', then 3', then 4', then 5', then 6' gars, which would require approx. 500 gal, 1000 gal, 2000 gal, 5000 gal, and 10,000 gal at a minimum, respectively; bigger would be better.
BW: ... I was simply giving him the optimal scenerio.
TBTB: It seems we don't view words the same way. What you call optimal, I call the maximal extreme.
BW: ... I wasn't saying it needs to be kept in any massive tank currently and I think thats how you took it,
TBTB: I haven't. I am arguing for a reasonable and weighted, balanced and realistic approach.
BW: but, as with any pet, you shouldnt own a pet you wont be able to maintain should it grow to its maximum potential size. Once again, not saying he couldnt, just stating a general rule of responsible pet ownership.
TBTB: Agreed. Just would add that life's unpredictable and say gars live a very long time and actually can outlive their keeper. In this light, I don't know how to apply this general rule of responsible pet ownership. It seems good only on paper to me... if one is speaking beforehand for the whole expected lifespan of a fish, then none of us should get them. I think when we get a pet fish, we should go by the more or less foreseeable future to determine whether we are making a responsible decision or not. There is no sense in guessing for the next 10, 20, 30 or 50 years.
BW: ... My point is that, if you have the drive, and truly care, you can build or find things on craigslist for fractions of the cost to buy them. Example: in my area there are over 6 aquariums on craigslist over 300 gallons thatre all under $400. They just need a little buffing and filtration work.
TBTB: On my end I was thinking of 2', then 3', then 4', then 5', then 6' gars, which would require approx. 500 gal, 1000 gal, 2000 gal, 5000 gal, and 10,000 gal at a minimum, respectively; bigger would be better.
Well, for me a fish reaching its maximum potential size is optimal. I guess in my mind thats a sign I took proper care of it. I will agree, there are many ways to look at it.
What you and hong both said was realistic, and quite possible. I also agree that lifes very unpredictable, things happen. If/when they do it's okay to need to get rid of your pets even if it sucks. But, I do feel people should go into pets with atleast the mindset of "okay, if all goes well this *insert pet* could get this big, will I be able to house it should it get to that?". No ones perfect, but Id like to believe one can have good intentions beyond giving a fish a good home in the immediate short term when playing with the life of an animal.
But yes, bigger would be better, and Ill admit I was short sighted in the fact I was envisioning an upgrade for a 4' fish [around 800 gallons at least]. 800 gallons is definitely nothing to gawk at, and would definitely take some hard work. But having personally built 10x12' enclosures for my water monitor, I just know that with research anyone can build an enclosure if they truly care. I will definitely admit a watertight aquarium over 1000 gallons would be one hell of a headache to not only build but even source materials, and is no easy feat. But my point with my original post on this thread was to say "hey, just incase you get a grower, it COULD reach this size, so be prepared for a big ol' fishy after a few years.
