Omega One vs NLS

[JK47]

Thanks for the responses gents, and Justin, if mapiritensis can show a visible size increase on NLS, that's something!

I would attest the groth and colors to NLS in a heartbeat. The only other thing that shows comperable growth is cut up market shrimp but I don't use that as a staple. Not even the shrimp show the colors the NLS does though.. I just get irritated being "LOL"ed at and told fish arent omnivores when they ARE.. so maybe we can play nice in this thread.

 

[RD.]

The last real Omega vs NLS thread took place several years ago on cichlid-forum, and was magically removed a week or so before Omega became a sponsor. Funny how that worked out. BTW I had no vested interest in any commercial products at that time, and my answer today would be pretty much exactly as it was back then.

the ingredients look pretty darn good in Omega One, purhaps more attractive than NLS'

Just out of curiosity, what exactly makes you feel that way?
I think that I already know the answer, but I would like to hear your explanation first hand.

 

[TheFishJunky]

Where is that link to the "food war" thread? I haven't seen that in a long time.Link anyone?

 

[Somethingfishyinc.net]

NLS best food out so far, compare apples to apples read the ingredients. Omega is good in some forms (wafers are good, freeze dried, veggy fakes etc) but pellet form best bang for the buck NLS.

my penny

 

[HrHagel]

NLS:

Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Wheat Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, Apricot, Mango, Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), Vitamin A Acetate, D-Activated Animal-Sterol (D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine, DL Alphatocophero ( E ), Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Niacin, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, L-Ascorby-2-Polyphosphate (Stable C), Ethylenediamine dihydroiodide, Cobalt Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Choline Chloride.


Omega One regular cichlid pellets:

INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), Ethoxyquin (Preservative).


I guess i should rephrase the "more impressive" statement. What i actually meant was it impresses me that the highest content of any one ingredient is whole Salmon, which is typically a much more expensive fish.

What i would really like to see though from both products is a Vitamin content analysis, as i have recently tried out JBL Novostick XXL, which has a seemingly very high amount of Vitamins, and that's certainly not considered a top feed. The novosticks are actually pretty bad in my opinion, and not something i would keep feeding, but it got me wondering more about vitamin contests.


Edit: Also curious why things like "Choline Chloride" and "Copper Proteinate" are found in NLS? What are these substances for?
Edit2: Nevermind, i know now

 

[RD.]

What i actually meant was it impresses me that the highest content of any one ingredient is whole Salmon, which is typically a much more expensive fish.

While I agree that salmon is listed first, that does not necessarily equate to salmon being higher in content than herring or shrimp. They could quite easily all be the exact same weight. Speaking of which, is that dry weight, or wet weight? It makes a BIG difference when one starts comparing ingredients & the order to which they are listed on a label. Listing raw ingredients by wet weight, such as "fresh chicken" is a common practice used by certain dog & cat food manufacturers. It looks very impressive as the main ingredient, until one realizes that whole chicken is made up from 60-70% water. Remove the water, and now where does it end up on the label? Hmmmmm.

When formulating a feed, it doesn't matter how long the list of fish ingredients are on a label, the total is still the total, whether one uses 500lb's of herring, 500 lb's of cod, or 500 lb's of 10 different species of fish. At the end of the day it's still 500 lbs of fish protein.

My biggest problem with Omega has always been how they market their products, such as "Using fresh, cold water marine proteins and kelp, as ingredients, instead of fishmeal and a whole lot of starch (like everyone else) puts Omega One light years ahead of any other fish food on the market. It truly is the “Best Fish Food in the World”

When in reality their fresh cold water marine proteins, are nothing more than glorified fish processing waste. (heads, skins, and bones)

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?49439

Hello guys at OmegaSea, I have a question regarding ingredients that go into your line of products.

At your web-site you state that "A large amount of the marine proteins used by Omega One in their flake foods come in the form of whole beautiful Salmon" and
"The salmon, herring, shrimp, and other seafood ingredients we use are food grade".

At the same time this document http://www.dced.state.ak.us/astf/adm...annual2000.pdf from Alaska Science and Technology Foundation states that:

"Crews supplies the processors with totes so they can dispose of the fish heads and carcasses as they clean and gut the fish. The processors, Crews said, are more than happy to get rid of the byproduct because it saves them the time and cost of grinding and dumping the waste. Once back in his plant, Crews grinds the remains of salmon, cod and other species into a slurry with vitamins and other ingredients to produce one of the fastest selling flake fish food on the market today"

Could you please explain exactly what constitutes the bulk of your seafood ingredients, whole fish and shrimp or heads and carcasses and other byproducts of fish and shrimp?

Hello,

Exact compositions of products and ratio's are condidential information as it pertains to proprietary amounts of fats, amino acids, and Omega 3&6 fatty acid profiles.

However, we use all of the items you mentiond. The halibut and cod frames that come from the processors are extremely rich in fresh fats. We take the same care of these items that the processors due for halibut and salmon fillets destined for the finest restaurants.

In terms of people food most of the sandwich meat you eat as well as probably all of the hot dog and sausage in the supermarkets use chicken and turkey heads and frames and other meat scraps as the main ingredients.

The one item ingredient you did not mention was fresh whole kelp. We harvest this ourselves and are only one of two companies in the State of Alaska to have this ability.


I hope this answers your questions


Thanks
Denny

The person that responded to that email (Denny) was none other than Dennis Crews, the owner of Omega Sea Ltd.


No big news to me, I've known about the processing plant waste for many years, and shortly after I reported it in a discussion that I know Denny did in fact read (on cichlid-forum.com), all traces of those articles were removed from the internet. Hmmmmm.


When the EPA clamped down on Alaskan fish processing plants (that were dumping their waste in the ocean) along came Dennis Crews (owner of Omega, and a former national sales rep for Tetra) and these fish processors were more than happy to let him take their processing plant waste (heads, skins, and bones) off their hands. The Alaskan Govt. were more than happy to provide a large grant for Omega as they were helping resolve a serious problem with processing plant waste, and pollution. A win-win for everyone.

But of course this wasn't exactly how Omega was marketing their fish waste, it was more along the lines of "Fresh fish from Alaska" with pretty pictures of boats out in the Alaskan waters. Most people don't realize that Omega Sea Ltd. is now based in Ohio, with only their frozen food plant left operating in Alaska. I wonder how well "Fresh fish from Lake Erie" would play to consumers?

This is in no way stating that Omega makes a poor product, I simply have a very low tolerance level for companies that attempt to feed me BS, and because of that Omega lost me as a customer many years ago. Dennis Crews is a marketing genius, I'll give him that, but he can't hold a candle next to someone like Pablo Tepoot who has been keeping, breeding, and raising fish on a commercial basis by the millions for the past 40 years.

What i would really like to see though from both products is a Vitamin content analysis, as i have recently tried out JBL Novostick XXL, which has a seemingly very high amount of Vitamins, and that's certainly not considered a top feed.

Never going to happen, not unless someone knows a non-biased 3rd party accredited institution that is willing to perform such an analysis, and make those results public. Then again, I don't need to see those results to know which company would be, as Denny put it, light years ahead of any other fish food on the market.

 

[Horiyoshi III]

Guy, you kidding?

O-I for the win.

 

[HrHagel]

Disturbing, but not too surprising information. While i agree that any company who feeds large amounts of BS can stick it, the question is whether ot not this actually affects the quality of the product in reality.
All fish food producers will use clever marketing to promote theire feed.
I saw NLS' "It's in there!" commercial on the site, and i nearly puked if i'm honest

Why is a Vitamin analysis not something these products will provide?
Up here, all fish food lists the amount of each vitamins.
For instance i'm sitting here with a bottle of that Novostick thingy, and it states:

Minimum Vitamin content pr. 1000g:
Vitamin A: 25.000 I.E
Vitamin D: 2.000 I.E
Vitamin E: 330mg
Vitamin C: 400mg

Also Neil, and anyone else, what do you think about the Omega 3&6 found in Omega One feeds?
It's certainly good for humans.

 

[Allan01230]

NLS all the way. Just because my L-600 pleco pair will eat it and their colors are very vibriant. My red hooks will eat cigar butts if you give it to them but my plecos whwer very picky. They would not touch omega at all even after three days. so NLS is my choice!

 

[RD.]

There is clever marketing, and then there is pure BS. I have no problem with the former, but personally refuse to entertain those that deal in the latter. Such as attempting to brain wash the general public into believing that a raw ingredient such as fish meal is low in nutrient value.
All that tells me is that either the person has no scruples, or is completely ignorant on the subject. Either way, as a consumer that doesn't instill a lot of confidence in their products. At least not for me.
There's a big difference between that kind of marketing, and someone that tells you it's in there, and it actually is in there.

Up here, all fish food lists the amount of each vitamins.

No they don't. All you have shown is one food, that has minimum values stated. For the most part fish food labels are nothing more than a general guideline, with min/max values shown for whatever is required by the various regulatory bodies. If it makes you feel any better NLS exceeds all of the values that you posted for your Novosticks.

FYI - Omega 3&6 are found in pretty much every fish food on the market, including most generic farm feeds.

My main concern with Omega, and one that was originally brought up several yrs ago, on another forum, back when I had no vested interest in anything beyond the long term health of my fish, was the level of crude fat found in their pellets. Omega's cichlid pellets state a minimum of 10% crude fat, which means the typical analysis would be at least 12%.
Their Super Color Pellets have a min of 11%, and even their Goldfish pellets have a minimum of 8% crude fat.

IMO that is too much fat for the vast majority of fish, and especially once they are beyond the juvenile stage of their life. Most warm water fish can only metabolize & utilize so much fat as an energy source, the excess gets stored. Much of that excess fat settles around the organs, such as the liver, and eventually can cause health issues including reducing the lifespan of the fish.

To quote Dr. Ruth Francis-Floyd, a professor at the U of Florida whom is considered by her peers to be an expert on the subject of fish nutrition & health;

"Fatty infiltration of the liver has also been designated "the most common metabolic disturbance and most frequent cause of death in aquarium fish"

With prolonged feeding of a high-energy, lipid rich diet, degenerative changes of the liver and death can occur unless the diet is corrected.

Dr. Ruth is the first person that the commercial operations in Florida call when they have dietary or disease issues in their fish. She's been involved in numerous studies involving both marine, as well as fresh water species, including numerous species of cichlids.

Those comments were originally posted in the following study.
http://afsjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1577/A03-035.1

The study above came about after some cichlid farms in south FL suffered from some large mortalities in both 1998 & 1999. When the dead fish were examined they showed fatty infiltration of the liver, heavy vacuolation, and severe necrosis of the liver, pancreas, and spleen.

It was suggested to the farms that they replace their feeds with one that had a lower lipid content (less than 10%) and supplement the feed with a vitamin premix. Clinical signs in the affected farms were resolved after implementation of these recommendations.

If you read that study in full it becomes crystal clear how quickly fatty infiltration of the liver can take place, even with very young juvenile cichlids, that have far higher metabolic rates than adult fish. While these types of foods promote quick growth, that quick growth often comes at a cost to the longevity of the fish.