Pecto ball pythons and the ethics of keeping reptiles... etc

Gourami Swami

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I agree with what ella and elevate are saying about different things. For example, I agree that I would rather pay 50$ for a breeder animal than 29$ for a wild caught or even wild hatched, for environmental reasons. However, while I do agree that the keeping of animals is not always what's best for the animal (even though I make damn sure I personally keep my animals well), I think that the responsible husbandry of animals can be a good thing. For example, I keep a crested gecko. In my enclosure, he eats like a king and doesnt need to worry about whether or not he is going to be eaten. In the wild, Mr.Fire ant and his posse could make a meal of him. With me he lives a nice safe life.
 

Ophiuchus

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I agree with Davo. Captive-breeding reptiles is tons better than wild-caught for several reasons.

1.) Captive breeding programs have little/no effect on wild populations (save for the occasional delving to get "new blood" in our stock). This of course, better maintains those wild populations that are otherwise getting constantly depleted from over-collection.

2.) Whenever an animal is taken from its wild habitat, you can bet it has some form of parasite in/on it. Also, you have to account for the amount of stress it endures as it is: initially captured, bagged/boxed in crowded conditions with conspecifics, being shipped halfway across the world (still probably kept in crowded conditions) all the while being kept cold and too damp or too dry, then finally arriving at its destination. On top of all that, its probably been poked and prodded at every step of the way. And we wonder why WC animals look like crap, not to mention scarred and missing appendages of some form.

3.) With a captive animal, you're not only guaranteed a more healthy herp that has not endured the hardships of a WC one, but you also have a mich better opportunity to know the heritage of it. You don't know what you're getting with a WC, but nowadays, you can usually know what the parents looked like, what/when it last ate, how old it is, etc, etc.

4.) Allowing herps to breed in captivity also sometimes yields unexpecting rewards for the scientific community. We've learned many things about many species during their reproductive cycles that we may have never discovered simply from field research. Not to mention that some endangered species have made a comeback directly from captive-breeding.


I really can't understand how anyone could argue that WC animals are better, unless of course, all you care about is money.

Now, I do understand that many species are still being imported, and again, as someone touched on it earlier, it is regrettably a money issue. Take tokay geckos for example...still heavily imported. Know why? They're cheap. You can get one for under $20 easily. True, they're mean as all get out, and that's why no one wants to start breeding them. Decades ago, leopard geckos were the same way....until we discovered the potential of different color morphs. People started breeding them to bring out the Hi-yellows, etc, then the prices started rising....but they're still popular. Huh...maybe someone will stumble across an albino tokay or something...

I also understand that there are a lot of stupid, irresponsible people out there that have no business owning pets. But you know what? That's life. Their freedom is our freedom. I think there should definitely be better regulations on larger species (large constrictors, monitors, crocs, etc), but our economy can't thrive if people are prohibited from buying pets just because they're "stupid." I mean, its simply not good business. As a petstore clerk (or hypothetically, if I was a breeder), I can't refuse sales just because I think someone is ill-equipped to care for a particular animal. Now I can shove caresheets down their throat, and talk to them for an hour, filling their dense skulls with everything I know, but at the end of the day, I can't tell them to take a hike because they're dimwits. In that, Brooks, I do understand your frustration, but there's not much else we can do in those situations beyond just educating the ignorant.

That said, I would much rather pay twice as much for a herp knowing that it was CCB and not WC.

Now if someone is arguing that we shouldn't keep animals as pets at all, that is another issue altogether and you're in the wrong forum.
 

varanio

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We also missed the point about their natural habitat. We seem to forget that reptiles arent the most liked of all the animals. They are losing their forest,jungle,desert, habitats just like more loved and propogated animals. Its mostly the cute mamals and birds that get the focus of the general masses. Even zoos dont spare a dime for MOST reptile breeding programs, with the exception of the Komodo Dragon, Galapagos Torts, iggies, crocs, and sea turtles I dont see anyone caring .02 about the plethora of other species needing our help. Captive breeding will be essential when MAN destroys most if not all their habitat.

Who are the scientists going to look at when they decide "oh crap" we never did anything for the crested gecko, and now we are trying to restore that island habitat. Where are we gonna get some to repopulate?

Regular joe schmoes like us who keep them for fun. We have to be prepared for something like this to happen, sad, but it may just boil down to it. Hopefully not!
 

Brooklynella

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varanio;1447596; said:
We also missed the point about their natural habitat. We seem to forget that reptiles arent the most liked of all the animals. They are losing their forest,jungle,desert, habitats just like more loved and propogated animals. Its mostly the cute mamals and birds that get the focus of the general masses. Even zoos dont spare a dime for MOST reptile breeding programs, with the exception of the Komodo Dragon, Galapagos Torts, iggies, crocs, and sea turtles I dont see anyone caring .02 about the plethora of other species needing our help. Captive breeding will be essential when MAN destroys most if not all their habitat.

Who are the scientists going to look at when they decide "oh crap" we never did anything for the crested gecko, and now we are trying to restore that island habitat. Where are we gonna get some to repopulate?

Regular joe schmoes like us who keep them for fun. We have to be prepared for something like this to happen, sad, but it may just boil down to it. Hopefully not!

Is there a way to check the endangered lists of various countries? I'd be willing to bet there are many reptiles listed.
Your post is Logical though.
 

varanio

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Brooklynella;1447664; said:
Is there a way to check the endangered lists of various countries? I'd be willing to bet there are many reptiles listed.
Your post is Logical though.
Having a list is one thing .....giving a rats arse about whats on the list is another chapter in another book. Again the list is just made as a formality, there is not one person who really cares about some of the more unpopular reptiles. It seems to be thought process that if an animal doesnt have a wow factor, then it is not worth saving. Sad Really
 

Kioka

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A lot of people don't care about if they are endangered or not...

Look at the CITES list. It only cover a small minority of all the reptiles out there.
 

Brooklynella

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evilxyardxgnome;1447697; said:
I just became a little more dumber reading this thread...

At least you can track your dumbness back to something. Some folks are clueless as to the source of their dumbness. Tragic really.:)
 

evilxyardxgnome

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Brooklynella;1448353; said:
At least you can track your dumbness back to something. Some folks are clueless as to the source of their dumbness. Tragic really.:)
Great! And now I know where it all started...this thread.:thumbsup:
 

krzr3000

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elevatethis;1445792; said:
You answered your own question right there. If Petco were to buy Captive Bred ball pythons, they'd have to buy from many different distributors, which isn't the most efficient thing for a company to do that has such a large supply chain.

Petco buys captive hatched ball pythons, meaning ball pythons that hatch from eggs collected in the wild and then incubated at various ranches in Ghana, Togo, and Benin, then exported to the US or other places for sale. Sometimes these are also called "farmed" ball pythons.

How do I know? I personally know one of the importers that sells to one of their distributors. Petco buys these farmed ball pythons for $5 a piece and sells them for $60. Not a bad markup for an imported animal!
What importer/distributor? I work at a co, and claims go all around that the animals are exclusively captive bred. Plus stores have a few options of where to buy from...
 
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