Platinum? Redtail/Tiger Hybrid

[koltsixx]

This guy was delivered to me 3-5-2024. I bought him as a Platinum Redtail/Tiger Shovelnose hybrid. Platinum being the terminology often used in the fish hobby for a fish exhibiting Leucism( Leucism - Wikipedia) as far I know. As I'm not positive that's a fully accurate description and in the effort of transparency is why I added a ? in my title. The hybrid exhibits some reduced grey coloration on his dorsal area the obvious spots and a yellow coloration on the upper half of his body that is at least as intense as my Albino Yarrelli. The black eyes and coloration on the body denotes he is definitely not an albino. The blotchy coloration maybe an expression of piedbaldism? Not sure if that'd be a more accurate descriptor. Again, I mention it in an effort of being transparent and not misrepresenting the color morph by being definitive in my identification of his color morph/form. In my experience it's harder to discern definitive color morphs in fish than in say reptiles once you go beyond albinism, leucism, xanthism and melanism. Especially since we have less representatives of the different color morphs available to us in the fish hobby.

While I'm not planning on making this an ongoing thread and I think RTC/TSN hybrids have been kept often enough there are better resources I will tell my very initial observations with his tankmates. Unfortunately, I'm having issues with one of his tankmates harassing him. I'm unsure which one it is but the possible culprits are an Achara/TSN hybrid, Xanathic Synodontis Nigrita or Tachysurus Ussuriensis. I've been unable to witness the aggression just the aftermath, torn, tattered fins and two small wounds on one side of his flanks. The Achara/TSN shows aggression to a slightly smaller Achara/TSN in weird spurts. Ignoring the other hybrid most of the time then a sudden surge in aggression resulting in severely tattered fins on the subordinate, than the dominant just as suddenly starts ignoring him again. So, I'm not sure if that aggression is also being directed at the Redtail/TSN. The Nigrita shows occasional spurts in minor aggression to everyone that goes too close to his hide. Finally, the Ussuriensis who I believe despite being much smaller maybe having a predatory response or aggressive response toward the RTC/TSN. Funny thing is I was originally worried the RTC/TSN might predate on the Ussuriensis since the hybrid was larger than I expected. The Ussurensis shows aggression toward my Hemibagrus Filamentus and he does so very stealthily. Choosing to attack when they are both behind decor by sneaking up on the Fila. Since they're both Bagridae aggression between the 2 isn't totally unexpected. The Ussurensis also has issue with the Albino Yarrelli. I don't think it's an aggressive response but a feed response triggered by the Yarrelli long fins or coloration or a combination of the two. I know the little so and so bites me out of a feeding repsonse every time I stick my arm in the tank. I have to keep my eyes peeled for him and the Gar for the same reason, but I digress. The Yarrelli however I don't have to worry about because he gives a very short but snappy chase to anyone who gets close. Doesn't stop the Ussurensis from trying though to take a bite out of him. Or at least that's my interpretation of the situation. So, I think the Ussurensis predatory response maybe triggered by sight and color. A stupid hypothesis based on limited visual observation and half-baked postulation of the motives of the Ussurensis actions but hey it's the best I got. Since the Ussurensis ignores everything else except for the Fila and it's obvious to me it aggression in that case and his other bites directed at me and the Yarrelli seem to be exploratory are you edible actions imho. So, I wonder if I'm correct in that, then he might be checking out the Platinum RTC/TSN in the same way. The Ussurensis is normally reserved and sedentary rarely moving about except when food is introduced, and I know I've seen him more active as of late occasionally shadowing the RTC/TSN but haven't seen him take a bite. Still the Ussurensis is sneaky, I'd almost swear he's on his best behavior when he thinks I'm looking. I don't know maybe I'm just crazy.

Anyway apologies for the huge walls of text. I guess I love hearing myself talk/write. Here's 2 short vids of the Platinum RTC/TSN

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Awesome post, Joshua! Glad to see some activity of your usual great quality lately. Sometimes it seems we've lost all the OGs forever. Lovely fish although I am a purist / natural coloration fan.

It'd sound that you are in position to elucidate the situation. I doubt the syno on pim aggression but it is not impossible. I imagine the size disparity should make even what's possible unlikely. I know TSN-Achara hybrid can be aggressive 1sthand. IDK anything about the ussuriensis, the Hemibagrus, and the goonch but what you write makes sense. I hope you'd get to the bottom of this soon.

 

[koltsixx]

Thanks Viktor, I've been enjoying reading and watching your posts as well. I haven't commented as I'm not sure what you want of the threads. I mean I know you're educating us with your experiences and amazing us with the beauty of your collection but I'm unsure of responding. The threads feel like a documentation of your journey, and I worry about interrupting your flow, your story. For instance, your Planiceps are gorgeous and it's nice to see that impressive growth rate and even more awesome is seeing them grow bolder as they put on that size. Congrats by the way on getting the little guys beyond the fragile stage. With that said I'm ot sure if I should reply to your threads or just go ham and spam them with likes.

Whoever was bothering the Platinum RTC/TSN has stopped(knock on wood). There are certain species of fish that seem to have supernatural healing capabilities and this hybrid is one of them. Wounds on his flanks are almost completely healed as are his fins. I have noticed the Ussuriensis is no longer shadowing him and has gone back to his occasional patrolling for food. I really have a feeling it was the Ussuriensis taste testing and seeing what he can get away with. I only have experience with this one individual, but he reminds me of a Calophysus macropterus or a Cookie Cutter Shark or a Cetopsis. I have a feeling he's very opportunistic and not above leaving circular taste test marks in his tankmates like I found on the Platinum RTC/TSN. Like my Calophysus though he does seem to have preferred targets. For my Calophysus he ignored everything except my old Yarrelli and this Ussuriensis targets my Albino Yarrelli and the Platinum. Well that is for predation in my opinion while his aggression is focused on my Hemibagrus Filamentus. Interesting fish, very fragile bodied. Sleek, thin very streamlined body. The Ussuriensis is considerably less bulky than catfish the same length as him to the point you'd easily mistaken him for being much smaller than he actually is. I worried he'd fall prey to the other fish in the tank. I thought the Achara/TSN or Trachycorystes would slurp him up like spaghetti but he has acquitted himself well in the tank. Never becoming close to becoming prey(Lol, again knock on wood) as my 2 Omok Pabo did which are long and tapering but much bulkier by far than the Ussuriensis. What can I say the fish is a Ninja.

Other behavioral changes are the Achara/TSN hybrids have begun occasionally patrolling alongside the RTC/TSN and currently showing no aggression toward each other. Again, not unusual as the aggression between them seems sporadic but I've seen them patrolling in such close proximity to one another which they hadn't done before. I'm hoping the addition of the RTC/TSN may have changed the dynamic of the pecking order by his size and presence. My experience with both hybrids is limited. This is only my second RTC/TSN hybrid and similarly I've only had one Achara/TSN before these 2 I have currently. I was surprised at the aggression between the two Achara/TSN's. I've had pure Achara before and never experienced aggression and while I never had a TSN I assumed they were a peaceful predatory species. So, I was stupefied when I saw one of them really tore up at the hands of his fellow Achara/TSN.

The Xanthic Nigrita is only 10" but oh boy is that guy chonky. The exact reverse of the Ussuriensis you'd swear he was bigger looking at him. The Platinum RTC/TSN is around 14". I maybe under sizing as every time I've sold a fish in the past that's what I was told. The Nigtita has attitude though. He's the only cat that has his own private hide and it's because he says so. Feeding time in the tank is a blitzkrieg. A sudden explosion of violent movement. The Trachycorystes literally bulldoze through the other fish with their big heads. The only thing that impedes their gluttonous assault is the Nigrita. His aggression being so persistent that he causes them to veer off and to quickly regroup and try a new attack vector. The Nigrita can't even damage them but so tenacious is this annoying fly to them that they veer off temporarily. And the Trachys greatly eclipse him in size and bulk. The Nigrita is usually content to keep to himself except if someone approaches his hide or during feedings, he can be surprisingly assertive.

I have on occasion been surprised by supposedly generally peaceful species exhibiting aggression. For instance, Pimelodus Blochii. I was DM'ing with Yellowcat on Planetcatfish the other day about his Blochii's aggression among other things. The convesrsation was really focused on his Lophiosiluru showing breeding behavior but segwayed into talk of his Blochii's aggression toward his Wetheimeria. I recounted my own experience with Blochii. I had one for a long time who never showed aggression of any kind. A beautiful 11' fish who I miss very much but I digress. The Blochii had been kept with a plethora of other catfish and a Flowerhorn longterm with no issue. The introduction of a 14" Calophysus macropterus completely changed that. The happy open water swimming not at all aggressive catfish became a hellion. All his ire squarely focused on the Calophysus and I mean single minded constant aggression. I had to separate them. I've seen turns in behavior like that on occasion and don't know for sure the cause. Is it really aggression as we typically think of it? Or does the fish see the new tankmate as a threat to them personally? Preemptively striking a perceived predator? Or is individual personality possibly inspired by their previous experiences with certain species?

It's one of the reasons I love fish. The challenge of keeping them, their beauty and grace and watching their behavior wondering how much of that behavior is biological imperatives ingrained into certain species and what is individual personality. I wish more people would share their personal experiences with their fish. So many descriptions of species they've kept being generalizations of their behavior. The nuances of those indiviiual experiences lost. I have kept a lot of fish many of which being the same species and have found my individual experiences with them different each time. Small expressions of the fishes indivduality the sum of their experiences and their adaptation to those experiences.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

It's a free forum and everyone can post a comment. Of all the candidates, you'd be in the top 5 of desirable commenters as the forum currently stands My threads may seem like a journal because rarely anyone offers a meaningful input (yes I've always disliked meaningless, filler posts), and all of the meaningful commentary or questions are and would be appreciated and valued. I know you are probably thinking back to when I was unsuccessfully proposing journal threads.

Awesome and interesting stories. I'd dare to suggest to create a thread for each fish species (vulture, blochii, TSNxachara, ussuriensis, nigrita) and copy and paste some of this there too. Nothing's expected though.

Been about 3 weeks since. If the TSNxRTC hybrid still damage-free?

K6: "... All his ire squarely focused on the Calophysus and I mean single minded constant aggression. I had to separate them. I've seen turns in behavior like that on occasion and don't know for sure the cause. Is it really aggression as we typically think of it? Or does the fish see the new tankmate as a threat to them personally? Preemptively striking a perceived predator? Or is individual personality possibly inspired by their previous experiences with certain species?"

The catfish go by taste and smell and my first guess is that the vulture was giving off a taste that the blochii found objectionable - as in a potential mating competitor, or a pecking order threat, or maybe simply a stressed fish that tastes like it could be easily taken as food or driven out and away... I'd doubt any more complex hypotheses, such as a learned and remembered behavior or something as complex as a preemptive strike, until all the simplest ones have been exhausted. Most usually, the reasons are the simplest, just hard to be certain in fish behavior and psychology diagnostics. Fish are 99.99% programmed biological machines IMHumO. So yes, there is a strong space for the generalization, without this we'd be helplessly lost, and yes, there is a room for individuality and, as we all know, every tank differs, including in the biochemistry of the chemical, hormonal and pheromonal composition of its water at any given point.

 

[koltsixx]

It's a free forum and everyone can post a comment. Of all the candidates, you'd be in the top 5 of desirable commenters as the forum currently stands My threads may seem like a journal because rarely anyone offers a meaningful input (yes I've always disliked meaningless, filler posts), and all of the meaningful commentary or questions are and would be appreciated and valued. I know you are probably thinking back to when I was unsuccessfully proposing journal threads.

Thank you very much Viktor. I understand as I'd prefer meaningful input as well, but I also appreciate filler as I think it makes people more likely to interact and hopefully that turns into more meaningful discussion and hopefully inspires others to share and deepens their passion for the hobby. Many of us enjoy talking about the hobby and sometimes the forum is our only outlet so an interaction can make all the difference. And now that I know if I feel I can make a meaningful contribution or ask a good question, I'll make sure to post it in your threads. I remember the journal proposal, I myself have often considered a blog type journal thread focusing on the fish I've kept.

Awesome and interesting stories. I'd dare to suggest to create a thread for each fish species (vulture, blochii, TSNxachara, ussuriensis, nigrita) and copy and paste some of this there too. Nothing's expected though.

Been about 3 weeks since. If the TSNxRTC hybrid still damage-free?

Thank you again Viktor. As I started saying above, I have considered a journal type thread but am unsure if I'd make it a conglomeration of all the fish in one or not. I have kept and am keeping so many species I imagine it'd be daunting to create a thread for each one. Currently I'm keeping approx. 24 different species of fish from juvies to subadults? I suppose and very few adults such as the Trachycorsystes which are currently 17 years old now. I am in the unique position that I can always update the thread title and OP to reflect new species kept and when in the thread the info. on that species begins.

As for the Albino TSN/RTC hybrid things have settled down. The Ussuriensis has stopped shadowing the Hybrid and all the torn fins have healed. I had only kept one TSN/RTC hybrid before so my experience is limited and this one worried me as at first it was very active. Almost nonstop swimming/glass surfing. It's constant probing with it's barbels kept annoying the Albino Yarrelli causing the Yarrelli to give short chase and many times move from its favored position in the tank. Thankfully that has stopped. The Hybrid still swims around but much less often taking time to rest and therefore not annoying the Yarrelli which makes me feel better about it settling in. I added a Semilabeo obscurus but again the Ussuriensis took umbridge at a new addition. The obscurus being much more skittish than the hybrid didn't take well to the attention and injuries inflicted on it. So, later the same day I moved the obscurus to another tank with my Pacman/Lophiosilurus Alexandri, Franscicodoras marmoratus and some Ossubtus Xinguense. The obscurus seems much more comfortable with his current tankmates.

 

[koltsixx]

The catfish go by taste and smell and my first guess is that the vulture was giving off a taste that the blochii found objectionable - as in a potential mating competitor, or a pecking order threat, or maybe simply a stressed fish that tastes like it could be easily taken as food or driven out and away... I'd doubt any more complex hypotheses, such as a learned and remembered behavior or something as complex as a preemptive strike, until all the simplest ones have been exhausted. Most usually, the reasons are the simplest, just hard to be certain in fish behavior and psychology diagnostics. Fish are 99.99% programmed biological machines IMHumO. So yes, there is a strong space for the generalization, without this we'd be helplessly lost, and yes, there is a room for individuality and, as we all know, every tank differs, including in the biochemistry of the chemical, hormonal and pheromonal composition of its water at any given point.

You are almost assuredly correct. It was just surprising to me as the blochii never showed any aggression in the time I had him, which was quite a while as he was at very least 8 inches at the time of the introduction of the calophysus. Kept with various catfish of varying aggression and never showed any back but the calo had him acting very hostile toward. Consistent vicious biting and relentless chasing till I removed the calo.