Pleco Black Stomach; Gets out of the water; Swimming Upside Down on Surface

[Yaponchik]

Hey guys,

I've typed up a very long message but it got lost when on image upload (my stupidity) so I'll make this quick.

I've not been very successful as a pleco keeper and have lost maybe 30+ juveniles over the course of the past 4 years. I'd have some that I grew from 1" to larger but they are exceptions rather than rule.

A year back, a very rare shipment (it was shipped only this time, and the supplier stated that we may never get another) of juvenile hypostomus luteus came in at very decent prices (still not cheap) and I really wanted to try my luck this time.

I got 4, and set them up to grow out in a 90g tank of their own. I lost one early on due to a stomach injury (unknown where it got it) that got infected. The largest one @ 7", I lost 3 weeks back after it somehow jumped the 1 inch clearance to my trickle's effluent elbow, fought against ~.23 gallons per second of flow, and somehow found a way to jump the tiny gap between the filter boxes.

A couple of days after that, I saw very long, white, stringy poop on the largest one left so I did what any of us would do - a full course of metronidazole (WC then day 1, 2, 3; WC then day 6, 8, 10) - The course ended last week Thursday. I did a water change of 80% on Friday (which I did for all my tanks as well)

On Saturday, I noticed them hanging out together near the surface which was very uncharacteristic because they do not stay together (one prefers the caves, and one prefers the driftwood) so I did a water test (everything was good, 0 NH3, 0 NO2-, 0-5 NO3-) but to be on the safer side, did a 50% water change.

On Sunday, the behavior was just going weirder, because they are now surfing on the surface upside down (see YouTube video) - did a water test, same as yesterday.

On Monday, same thing, but this time they were going out of the water while latched onto the glass.

Yesterday, same thing and I've had enough observation, I lowered the water level to 50% of tank volume and dosed Nitrofurazone and Kanamycin.

One thing I've noticed is that there is a black tinge growing on their otherwise very velvety yellow bellies. It is getting larger. They take food but do not seem to be as interested.

I would be devastated to lose them as I've sworn off plecos in the past (due to my experience not being able to grow out juveniles, I mean at one point I had 10 L144 fries and only one survived, the rest just dropped dead for no reason. Survivor is 5 months old now but not as large as I would expect him to be. 5 months and a growth rate of 2"?) If I lose these two, I would have to swear off plecos for good. If I'm able to keep them alive, they are going to an unused 180G that I have lying around as soon as they are big enough not to get through the overflow weir.

The reason I am so paranoid is because this is the exact behavior that I have come to associate to a pleco that would pass away from my previous experience.

Can anyone help me? I'm including the setup and maintenance regime that I follow.

Water Change System
- 5 stage filtration, 10 μ pleated, 5 μ cotton, 1 μ sediment, 5 μ carbon block, 18W UV, ran at 2~3 gpm

Water Source
- Deep well, with rock solid PH of 8.4 (tested, back in 2018 I had to go out of the country on emergency for 40 days & none of my tanks PH dropped after 40 days of no WC. Admittedly very sparse feeding at this time, but even then)

Tank Maintenance
- 50% - 80% bi-weekly water change
- No glass panel cleaning, the plecs eat up the diatoms, but not the green algae that's hard to remove if you don't use melamine foam
- Conditioner is API Stresscoat, always double dosed for therapeutic effect claims (which I feel I am wasting money on... But it did get my SR's fins back so I'm patronizing it ?)
- Filter pads are changed every 2 weeks, medias are cleansed every 2 weeks
- Driftwood was boiled for a cumulative 16 hours before putting in this tank a year back, while the caves were soaked in a bleach solution, also added a year back
- Tank was cycled 4 months prior to them being put in, it was being used as a growout for a TSG
- They have always been the only inhabitants of this tank, and this was the first time I medicated them in a year
- There is no running UV filter on this tank because it's isolated
- As with all my tanks, I test the water on a weekly basis before the 1st weekly water change

Diet (in order of how often I feed the food items)
- Courgette
- Chayotte
- Squash (of the West Indian variety)
- Cucumber
- Bok Choi (and it's many variants)
- Romaine Lettuce
- Carrots (they aren't fans)
- Broccoli (also not fans)
- Watermelon (occasionally, when I buy some for my son)
- Melon
- The occasional algae wafers

1" a year ago



Test kit results from Monday



Them yesterday



YouTube video

Skip to belly

Skip to surfing upside down at the surface

 

[DHarris]

Sorry to hear you're dealing with this. I've had some of my LARGE plecos try to get out and hit the glass lid hard but none have gone through the back. As these guys are still small, perhaps try just putting Saran Wrap over the open sections.

Did the Metro work in getting rid of the internal parasites on the one with the white poo? If not, try Levamisole. It's a dewormer and works wonders.

Are you cleaning your media with tank water or new water? If the later, you may be killing off your beneficial bacteria.

Crazy question but the only conditioner I see listed is Stress Coat. When you do your water changes, are you using Prime?

 

[Yaponchik]

Sorry to hear you're dealing with this. I've had some of my LARGE plecos try to get out and hit the glass lid hard but none have gone through the back. As these guys are still small, perhaps try just putting Saran Wrap over the open sections.

Did the Metro work in getting rid of the internal parasites on the one with the white poo? If not, try Levamisole. It's a dewormer and works wonders.

Are you cleaning your media with tank water or new water? If the later, you may be killing off your beneficial bacteria.

Crazy question but the only conditioner I see listed is Stress Coat. When you do your water changes, are you using Prime?

Hi DHarris, thanks for the response.

The only section they could have jumped out from is the effluent, which I have already covered. So the jumping issue is something I know plecos do, but surfing upside down is something they do not.

Yes, the metro did work. No more long stringy poop. Levamisole hcl + Praziquantel is part of my normal deworming regime (3 doses for new fishes 10 days apart for 1 month) followed by a full cycle of metronidazole. It's something I do with all my fish (about 4 years back, I learned the hard way bringing in wild caught parasites with wild caught fish then putting them with the same species that are captive bred = disastrous idea). What I don't understand is how it acquired it, it is in it's own isolated pod, and the water is filtered. A recurrence perhaps? Probably the protozoans are actually a natural part of the stomach fauna that was provided an opportunity by a stressed fish... I don't know... But it is treated, thank you for asking!

I clean my media with my filtered water. I know for a fact that I am not killing any beneficial bacteria this way. Again, a hard learned lesson. I always cleaned my media with a power washer hooked up to that medias' tank drain system... That caused me a crash. It's something I won't ever do again.

I have been a long time prime / safe user. I have recently switched to Continuum Fraction D. It's something I can recommend wholeheartedly. Between the past few days prior to your response, I've decided to stop using stresscoat because of this article. I'm finishing off whatever is left and am returning to using Prime / Fraction.



As an update for the rest, I've finished my kanamycin+bifuran cycle (1 dose every other day, up to a maximum of 3 doses)

During the medication, there was significant improvement. The behavior stopped that on the 2nd dose I tried offering food, which they took. Well, not all is fine and dandy.

After adsorbing the medication (activated carbon + purigen) and painstakingly doing a slow 100% water change, I was very happy to see that they were back to their normal selves. Well that lasted for only 2 days. One has been back to the same "surfing" on the surface. The other is still normal but is now showing signs that it's about to go "surfing" as well. I'll just allow them to de-stress, see if they stop eating food; if they do stop taking food, I would resume a new medication cycle, but this time, I'll be using cephalexine; I'm just trying to figure out if there are any side effects if combined with bifuran (I'm thinking not, but maybe someone here knows?) because obviously, while the bifuran did halt whatever was irritating them, it's clear that kanamycin wasn't enough to eradicate it (might not be enough to target the specific strain, so I'd have to go higher up the broad spectrum antibacterial ladder).

One thing I did notice from this very stressful event (for the fishes and for me) is that out of the blue, they gained more yellowing! Literally... Maybe it's the stress that make lutes go from phase to phase?! I don't know... But I will find out soon enough.

That's the update for now.