Hello people, I have been a member here MF for a few years but always in the SW section. I have kept snall Rays like Blue Spotted, Yellow and California Rounds for 3 years now but the latter is all I have now. I was thinking and infact planning to shut my system completely so my wife and I could be freed up to travel alittle more with no more begging the children to come over and feed the rays but those plans have changed some. I have been thinking of trying a few freshwater rays of some sort but am concerned of the huge water changes i believe have to be done. I have a 9' round pond/pool that i made a few years ago with my grandson, it has a 300 gallon sump and a big skimmer right now that can be sold if i do the switch, the total system is around 1k gallons of water with the sump actually having 100 gallons in the bottom. I am on well water which hasnt effected any of my marine life over the last 7 years that i know of. I dont run heaters with the California Rounds since they can handle temps from the mid 50's to the mid 70's. The water now is 72 but can drop into the mid 60's if we have a could winter. How much water changing will be needed, what temps, what about well water? I will not do rodi water again, way to much going to waste and too much work for the well pump. Sorry about a long post, thanks for the replies in advance.
Possible switch from SW Rays to FW?
- Thread starter Deano1956
- Start date
Lots of people here use well water. There have been a few debates about high pH and GH being detrimental long-term but I don't think there is any scientific data backing up these assertions yet.
Water changes are simply performed to reduce DOCs and Nitrate levels so the frequency of water changes will depend directly on stocking levels and the amount of food you offer the rays. Your tank is larger than many people's so their "once or twice a week" experience isn't going to apply to you because you're not cramming half a dozen rays into a 200 gallon tank. I wouldn't be surprised if you could go a month or more without changing water.
Temperature will need to be up around 76-80f, you won't get away without heating the water.
Water changes are simply performed to reduce DOCs and Nitrate levels so the frequency of water changes will depend directly on stocking levels and the amount of food you offer the rays. Your tank is larger than many people's so their "once or twice a week" experience isn't going to apply to you because you're not cramming half a dozen rays into a 200 gallon tank. I wouldn't be surprised if you could go a month or more without changing water.
Temperature will need to be up around 76-80f, you won't get away without heating the water.
Do some searching on this site for some threads from Firemedic dealing with using plants to eat Nitrates and thus reducing the need for waterchanges significantly....
IF you are able to remain wise about population density then waterchanges won't be that bad. Most raykeepers here suffer from overcrowding and in turn must do rediculous waterchanges.
Be cautious of max sizes when you're doing research..... It's highly debatable. Males stay do stay smaller then females though in all the Potomotrygon species. Hystrix stay small, some Marbles stay just as small, Black rays, Motoros and Castexi get quite a bit bigger and Flowers/Tiggers are supposed to get big. Problem is noone can agree on what the max sizes are.... lol
IF you are able to remain wise about population density then waterchanges won't be that bad. Most raykeepers here suffer from overcrowding and in turn must do rediculous waterchanges.
Be cautious of max sizes when you're doing research..... It's highly debatable. Males stay do stay smaller then females though in all the Potomotrygon species. Hystrix stay small, some Marbles stay just as small, Black rays, Motoros and Castexi get quite a bit bigger and Flowers/Tiggers are supposed to get big. Problem is noone can agree on what the max sizes are.... lol
My thoughts were having a pair only (M+F). So my idea of cutting electrical cost by getting rid of the skimmer which uses 225 watts isnt going to work if I have to add large heaters unless I can tie into my boiler down here in the basement. I have had some sensitive salwater fish in the past and the well water didnt seem to bother them so i would think i should be ok with that. As far as sump would I keep rock work and sand the same for beneficial bacteria to grow?
You can certainly tie into the boiler to heat the water. And with only a pair in that much water? Maybe 3-monthly water changes 
Fresh water setups don't have much use for rock and sand in filtration - it's near impossible to get conditions right to remove nitrate without using plants. In such a lightly stocked system bioballs or nylon pot scrubbies in a drip system will easily suffice for biological filtration.
TBH, if your motivation to change is saving on your utility bills, I'm not sure you'll save much by the time you're heating the water.
Fresh water setups don't have much use for rock and sand in filtration - it's near impossible to get conditions right to remove nitrate without using plants. In such a lightly stocked system bioballs or nylon pot scrubbies in a drip system will easily suffice for biological filtration.
TBH, if your motivation to change is saving on your utility bills, I'm not sure you'll save much by the time you're heating the water.
Look for Rich's (VLDesign) DIY heating for his big tank. He's tied into the hot water heater and I believe he pays like $16/month for heat. on like 1500+ gallons.
You could keep any pair of FW rays in there if you're only doing a pair. With that much volume and that low of stock there's no reason you couldn't stuff the sump with Pathos plants and I wouldn't be suprised if you could get by with monthly maybe even bi monthly WCs, or just do a drip system and never change it...lol.
If you wanna save electricity I bet you could use a few Korilia type power heads for water movement in the pond, and if you went with a bio reactor for filtration then all you'd need for a pump is like 500 GPH. I don't see any reason why you couldn't run a FW pond with half the electricity the skimmer used.
You could keep any pair of FW rays in there if you're only doing a pair. With that much volume and that low of stock there's no reason you couldn't stuff the sump with Pathos plants and I wouldn't be suprised if you could get by with monthly maybe even bi monthly WCs, or just do a drip system and never change it...lol.
If you wanna save electricity I bet you could use a few Korilia type power heads for water movement in the pond, and if you went with a bio reactor for filtration then all you'd need for a pump is like 500 GPH. I don't see any reason why you couldn't run a FW pond with half the electricity the skimmer used.
I have a Dolphin pump that moves 4200 gph at current head. In my first post I had said that I have a 300 gallon sump/stock tank and in side sits a 48 x 18 x 18 acrylic real sump with 3 compartments, 2 have poly pads with bio balls underneath just like any other system. I would leave the sand and rock I have in the sump I suppose and also leave the sand in the pool if I do the switch. This would hurt anything during the cycle?
Won't the argonite hold PH higher then tap? Would there be repercusions from all the saltwater BB and other organisms dying off?
IF it was me I'd reconfigure the mechanical side of the filtration (socks over pads) but I'm sure what you have would work.
IF that pump is a 4700 you could probobly save some energy with a pump swap, if I remember correctly those pumps have a pretty hefty energy appetite.
Any way you looks at it, it should work fine, can always make improvements down the road. I'd recommend looking into bio reactors for the bio side of the system. I don't think it's coincidence that most people regularly breeding FW rays in big systems in the states use them.
IF it was me I'd reconfigure the mechanical side of the filtration (socks over pads) but I'm sure what you have would work.
IF that pump is a 4700 you could probobly save some energy with a pump swap, if I remember correctly those pumps have a pretty hefty energy appetite.
Any way you looks at it, it should work fine, can always make improvements down the road. I'd recommend looking into bio reactors for the bio side of the system. I don't think it's coincidence that most people regularly breeding FW rays in big systems in the states use them.
there would be savings on salt mixes too although I brew my own salt mix for cheap, but still takes time. if I could tie into the boiler like that one person did I could do it reasonable. Another reason for possble change is the color variations with FW rays, they are much more colorful unless you do the SW Blue Spotted or a Honeycomb which is pretty hard to do with success
my pump eats 220 watts also, a Reeflo would save some being that it is in the 165 watt range for 3800 gph with 4' of head I think. I of course would clean all my subtrate before starting up again. Oh my PH is around 8.2 the last time I checked, comes out of my tap 7.2-4 if I remember correctly.
