Ok thank youIf you're building a tank for rays, you need to look at JohnG's two builds. That's what both his tanks were built for. Very clean and successful builds.
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Ok thank youIf you're building a tank for rays, you need to look at JohnG's two builds. That's what both his tanks were built for. Very clean and successful builds.
I assume by "fiberglass" you mean you plan to do a build coat on all surfaces with some sort of fiberglass reinforcement (mat, cloth or roving) wetted out with polyester or vinyl ester resin?I will be starting my build soon around 800-1000 gallons 2x4's....4x4...plywood and fiberglass" possible gel coat and then the following >>>>>>>>
What is the best liquid rubber??
What is the best epoxy??
What is best between rubber and epoxy?????
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Thank you, I really appreciate this^^I assume by "fiberglass" you mean you plan to do a build coat on all surfaces with some sort of fiberglass reinforcement (mat, cloth or roving) wetted out with polyester or vinyl ester resin?
And then you plan to put a gel coat on top of that?
And then you plan to put yet another sealer on top of that?
At the very least I'll comment that if you want to combine polyester + fiberglass with some other sort of sealer then the gel coat layer is really unnecessary and might even inhibit the bonding of subsequent layers, depending on the type of gel coat used.
Fiberglass plus polyester resin alone is a traditional way of building plywood tanks. Back in the late 80's I saw plywood tanks that had been built in the late 60's with nothing but fiberglass cloth, mat and polyester resin. No gel coat.
Somehow over the years it has gotten a bad reputation to the point that some believe it isn't sufficiently waterproof nor is it safe for fish. Yet there are plywood builds on this site sealed with nothing but orthophthalic or isophthalic polyester resins and some fiberglass reinforcement.
For sure if you want to build up a thick layer of fiberglass reinforcement then polyester resin is an inexpensive way of doing so. But understand that you can also use epoxy resin (note resin, not expoxy paint) to wet out and build up a fiberglass layer. But it will be more expensive if you use equal amounts (more on that later).
Comparing 100% epoxy resin to a decent quality polyester, there are some differences to consider.
Polyester will be about 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of a cheaper epoxy resin. Maybe closer to 25% the cost of an expensive epoxy resin, especially if you have to have the latter shipped in and the former can be purchased locally.
But this cost difference can be reduced when one considered that less epoxy can be used to build up a comparable strength composite layer. How much less? Some companies that sell both report as much as 50% less epoxy and cloth can be used to build an equally strong layer. But the reality is that many building plywood tanks want to go overkill and they apply much more than needed so you have to ask yourself if you're really going to do all of the calculations or are you just going to keep layering on fiberglass and resin until you feel like it's enough?
There are some working differences between the two. Polyester has a strong styrene smell which can be a problem in enclosed areas. I don't mind the smell in small amounts but for a large project it can be too much. Epoxy resin has nearly no odor but can cause exposure allergies.
Polyester generally sets up very quickly, although that can be controlled to some extent. Some people do like how quickly polyester sets up, especially on vertical surfaces which are subject to sag. Others find epoxy easier to roll out, especially since it doesn't gel up the same as polyester. Beginner boat builders tend to prefer epoxy.
Comparing un-reinforced polyester to un-reinforced epoxy, epoxy will be more flexible and more durable and will waterproof at a thinner layer. Once you starting adding in fiberglass a lot of these differences become pretty trivial, IMO. To address an eariler post, cured epoxy is more flexible without fiberglass. It becomes stiffer and stronger once fiberglass is included.
Polyester is more UV resistant if you're considering an outdoor tank or a porch tank. But even under metal halides or directly by a window epoxy holds up to the sun. It's really direct, unfiltered sunlight that is a problem.
I have used polyester + fiberglass, epoxy + fiberglass and just epoxy without fiberglass to seal plywood tanks. I've also used epoxy paints like Sweetwater to seal plywood tanks. All have their pros and cons. I will say that epoxy paints are different enough from 100% epoxy resins that they really shouldn't be lumped together.
While I have some experience with bituminous emulsions (i.e.Liquid Rubber"). I have not used them on plywood much less plywood tanks.
Oh yeah, my favorite epoxy resin is West Systems with the thinner/clearer hardener. It really is noticeably easier to work with but it's also more expensive. Based on price and what appears to be quality customer service and really good advice about plywood tanks it would be hard for me to look past Max ACR today. I have not used their product nor do I have any affiliation with them. I've just been impressed with the advice they've been giving out to plywood tank builders as reported on various forums.
But of course if I were building a tank today I might just use polyester. It would depend on a few factors. Only sealer I would rule out is Sweetwater due to hazardous material shipping charges. If I lived in Florida I'd consider it as well.
Thank you, I really appreciate this^^
And you hit the nail on the head, what I plan to do is build my wood structure, then line it with fiberglassing as the same form as building a BOAT HAUL or a BATH TUB" which are both very similar constructions, an both last very long.... As fiberglass alone is not designed to be submerged or wet for its lifetime that's where I thought about gel coating" again like BOATS an BATH TUBS" as gel coats main design was to be submerged for it's lifespan.
Idk if rubber or epoxy will bind with gel coat either I guess I will do a sample piece and try?
I look at it as a security I gues I know constructing it like an inside out boat haul or bath tub is a perfect design and I have no doubts that that alone will hold water 100% for life as boats float for 50 years easy and bathtubs outlast the house they are in.... The liquid rubber an epoxy questions I have are just for piece of mind I guess?
I really appreciate your info if you have any suggestions or other ideas please do contact me or just keep replying to this post
Thanks
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It sounds like you're thinking about the plywood less in terms of structure but more in terms of a form and possible the exterior look? Is that right?Thank you, I really appreciate this^^
And you hit the nail on the head, what I plan to do is build my wood structure, then line it with fiberglassing as the same form as building a BOAT HAUL or a BATH TUB" which are both very similar constructions, an both last very long.... As fiberglass alone is not designed to be submerged or wet for its lifetime that's where I thought about gel coating" again like BOATS an BATH TUBS" as gel coats main design was to be submerged for it's lifespan.
Idk if rubber or epoxy will bind with gel coat either I guess I will do a sample piece and try?
I look at it as a security I gues I know constructing it like an inside out boat haul or bath tub is a perfect design and I have no doubts that that alone will hold water 100% for life as boats float for 50 years easy and bathtubs outlast the house they are in.... The liquid rubber an epoxy questions I have are just for piece of mind I guess?
I really appreciate your info if you have any suggestions or other ideas please do contact me or just keep replying to this post
Thanks
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