Rays and Ph

[Danh]

I'm getting back to freshwater after many years. I haven't had rays in 15 years or so. I had some issues with keeping them back then. I had many other big fish in those tanks and saw no concerns whatsoever with them.

I became convinced that it was Ph issues and the alkalinity of the water near me. I'm on a different water than I was 15 years ago but I wanted to run this by the group. My last reef tank I had a controller and Ph monitor and I could see very clearly up to 1/2 of a point movement throughout the day and even a little more than a full point I use my fireplace or oven. And that is with LOTS of alkalinity in that water. My tap water is pretty soft compared to reef tank water so it should fluctuate even more.

Have any of you used crushed coral or any other buffer in your tanks to help keep Ph more consistent for your rays?

 

[digginrays]

i use crushed coral in all my setups to maintain ph.

 

[Danh]

About how much do you use and what size tanks? Do you do anything special for water changes?

i use crushed coral in all my setups to maintain ph.

 

[wednesday13]

I kept many rays and bred them for yrs in high ph no problem… drip acclimating them for 1-3hrs is very beneficial. Once there “on ur system” and its consistent ur fine IMO. Rays are extremly hardy. Ull run into more trouble not keeping ur PH consistent using buffers etc. then acclimating them slowly to whatever water u have and keeping them there. My ph from the tap is 8… running 24/7 auto drips it only drops to 7.8 in tank. Clean water 24/7 is far more important than PH.

 

[Danh]

Consistent is the reason I am asking the question - in addition to how water changes are handled if using crushed coral as a buffer. I have watched high alkalinity water drop by at least half a ph point in 30 minutes or so when my gas fireplace was turned on. I can only imagine lower alkalinity tap water would drop by even more. So consistency is exactly what I'm trying to make sure I have covered.

The rays I had in the past were drop acclimated to a 180g tank that had aros, peacock bass, a couple of catfish and geos. All of which always seemed happy and healthy, eating like teenagers. I'm trying to figure out what went wrong with several rays, shortly after order. From a few days to a couple of weeks. This was a long time ago, I just want to make sure all of my bases are covered for this attempt.

 

[wednesday13]

Consistent is the reason I am asking the question - in addition to how water changes are handled if using crushed coral as a buffer. I have watched high alkalinity water drop by at least half a ph point in 30 minutes or so when my gas fireplace was turned on. I can only imagine lower alkalinity tap water would drop by even more. So consistency is exactly what I'm trying to make sure I have covered.

The rays I had in the past were drop acclimated to a 180g tank that had aros, peacock bass, a couple of catfish and geos. All of which always seemed happy and healthy, eating like teenagers. I'm trying to figure out what went wrong with several rays, shortly after order. From a few days to a couple of weeks. This was a long time ago, I just want to make sure all of my bases are covered for this attempt.

Theres nothing more consistent than an auto drip system. A “must” for ray keeping IMO… the only thing that would alter ur readings is ur city/source water changing. That can also be curbed/prevented with pre filtration on ur drip lines running through carbon, sediment and resin filters. Sounds like alot of stock for ur old 180 system… rays alone in a 180 could be troublesome with the amt of ammonia/waste they produce. “Run of the mill” fish can take the changes/swings much better which is probably why they seemed fine and well. U might have just been unlucky also with rays that weren’t in the best shape when u got them. 99% of the time clean water is the solution to most all fish problems. I really wouldn’t worry about chasing ph. A manual water change alone will cause swings/changes that can kill fish… auto drips eliminate all of that. There pretty simple and affordable to set up also.

 

[Danh]

I had an auto change system on my 480g. 7000gph through giant bio filtration.... and then I was running a gallon per hour or so through the auto changer.

Either way, I can't run an drip on a set up now. I don't have anywhere to drain the water to.

You said in your first post that Rays are hardy. Now you are saying they can't handle changes and swings like "run of the mill" fish? Which is it?

 

[DB junkie]

What works for the majority may not work for everyone. I am in the minority. I couldn't get a drip to work. The amount I had to drip in order to keep the PH/conductivity down was ridiculous. I am in the land of liquid rock. The PH would creep and water changes would mess with more of the stuff I kept then what seemed to tolerate it.

After discussions with people way smarter then me I decided to try messing with RO. It quickly became clear that a storage system would be needed. I didn't have room.

After a few years we moved and I was given a chance to try pulling out all the stops on the water before hanging it up after loosing 16 rays in the move.

I began storing aerating and heating tap and RO. I added back a portion of tap for substance.

This system saved my involvement in the hobby. Not only did the random losses a few times a year stop I was also able to keep my 4K gallons of rays while raising 3 girls. Total time on maintenance for a week is about 2 hours without cleaning algae - maybe 3 if I scrub everything. I use around 500 gallons of vertical storage containers to store some tap and RO and these are tied to a hammerhead. One storage "station" for each basement (2 here). A 400ish gallon waterchange and sock swap can be done in around 25 min.

I am not aware of anyone in my area successfully keeping rays in long term in pure Iowa tap water...... Seems anyone remotely successful gets wiped out by the spring or fall random fish kill.

Been running this way a few years now and can say without a doubt I feel this is the closest I've ever been to considering myself a "successful" ray keeper.

 

[wednesday13]

I had an auto change system on my 480g. 7000gph through giant bio filtration.... and then I was running a gallon per hour or so through the auto changer.

Either way, I can't run an drip on a set up now. I don't have anywhere to drain the water to.

You said in your first post that Rays are hardy. Now you are saying they can't handle changes and swings like "run of the mill" fish? Which is it?

Once there fattened up and in good health yes… it will take a fair amt of human error to kill them. Again, consistency and clean water are key tho. Run of the mills can handle 80% water change for example… rays can only handle that so many times. Itd b better to change say 20% a day then a full 80% once a week. 1 gallon per hr on 480 gallons is nothing… i drip 6-8gph for tanks that size. Around 150-200% the full tank volume per week is “average”

Back to my original sentiments… its based on the health u recieve a ray in. If there skinny and in bad shape, yes… 1 water change too large might kill them. Alot of factors lead to decline. Mostly lack of food and poor water quality. “Famous last words” are “my other fish are fine”… Been there done that… spent years chasing filtration/equipment “upgrades” before i realized its the simplest of all things. Just clean water 24:7… and alot of it. Theres always a way to drip lol…

 

[wednesday13]

What works for the majority may not work for everyone. I am in the minority. I couldn't get a drip to work. The amount I had to drip in order to keep the PH/conductivity down was ridiculous. I am in the land of liquid rock. The PH would creep and water changes would mess with more of the stuff I kept then what seemed to tolerate it.

After discussions with people way smarter then me I decided to try messing with RO. It quickly became clear that a storage system would be needed. I didn't have room.

After a few years we moved and I was given a chance to try pulling out all the stops on the water before hanging it up after loosing 16 rays in the move.

I began storing aerating and heating tap and RO. I added back a portion of tap for substance.

This system saved my involvement in the hobby. Not only did the random losses a few times a year stop I was also able to keep my 4K gallons of rays while raising 3 girls. Total time on maintenance for a week is about 2 hours without cleaning algae - maybe 3 if I scrub everything. I use around 500 gallons of vertical storage containers to store some tap and RO and these are tied to a hammerhead. One storage "station" for each basement (2 here). A 400ish gallon waterchange and sock swap can be done in around 25 min.

I am not aware of anyone in my area successfully keeping rays in long term in pure Iowa tap water...... Seems anyone remotely successful gets wiped out by the spring or fall random fish kill.

Been running this way a few years now and can say without a doubt I feel this is the closest I've ever been to considering myself a "successful" ray keeper.

U can drip from ur aged water storage containers with a pump ??. Save ya some time during the week lol… not knockin ya for ur efforts and solutions, i know uve been through the ringer with ur water over the yrs. Always room for improvements across the board in this game we play. “Grenade”… how long can u hold the pin ?