So what the hell is a gar and what is not one???

[ESJBond007]

I agree... very nice thread Polypterus...

 

[Weylin]

Very good info..

 

[Polypterus]

Awesome thread Polypterus! I just exiled all euteleostei fish from my collection...Gotta stick with Mesozoic fish....



Although substantially "younger" than holosteans (is holostean still valid?), Characins must have had a Jurassic origin, given that they are found in both South America and Africa. Therefore they must have existed in Gondwana before the seperation of the continents...

Characins first arrived on the scene in the early Cretaceous with the earliest fossils of them being found in Brazil. They presumably quickly radiated from there and got lucky to just in time diversify and move into Africa.

Holostei is considered invalid and the Gars and Bowfin have been assigned to Neopterygii. Might come back again though so it's use is not totally invalid..

 

[SimonL]

Characins first arrived on the scene in the early Cretaceous with the earliest fossils of them being found in Brazil. They presumably quickly radiated from there and got lucky to just in time diversify and move into Africa.

Ahhh...I didn't realize Brazil was still connected to Africa until 115 MYA or so...

Polypterus, correct me if I'm wrong, I was under the impression the most primitive characins were Distochodus and citharinus, both African. I suppose all the primitive American characins have become extinct...Which is the most primitive extant American characin?

 

[Polypterus]

Ahhh...I didn't realize Brazil was still connected to Africa until 115 MYA or so...

Polypterus, correct me if I'm wrong, I was under the impression the most primitive characins were Distochodus and citharinus, both African. I suppose all the primitive American characins have become extinct...Which is the most primitive extant American characin?

It has always been my understanding that the African species are the most primitive morphologically. While the Ostariophysans (including Characins) originated in South America there are few primitive examples. Most of the current Icthyofauna of South America is rather young.

I'm not really sure which of the Neotropical characin families would be classified as primitive in morphology. I'll have to look that up (if you find it before me please do post it up) That is a very interesting question...

 

[SimonL]

Currently I've got Red hooks in my "Mesozoic" tank, distos are too nippy

I know that SA does have the most primitve catfish, Diplomystes...

 

[E_americanus]

i think we should move this thread to the "other monster fish" subforum...

sorry, just couldn't resist

great post richard--
--solomon

 

[Polypterus]

I do believe this is the first time Characins have been discussed appropriately under "Ancient fish"

 

[Polypterus]

Speaking of I think I found the answer to which Neotropical is the most primitive in Morphology. The fish in the Family Anostomidae seem to be the ones. Still not sure though.. Not sure if anyone is....

 

[SimonL]

I do believe this is the first time Characins have been discussed appropriately under "Ancient fish"

LOL, I've always wondered what qualified fish as "ancient" I always thought it should be called Primitive Fish. And technically rays should be included here too...and sturgeon.

Anostomidae? Damn, not a single species I like lol.

I've been meaning to ask you or Solomon why Primitivefish.com only has bonytongues and not other osteoglossiforms...