sump help!

I30RIS

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Oct 14, 2016
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Hello all, brand new here and looking for some advice....

I'm currently building a 8 x 2 x 18" tank for my turtles but I'm looking at setting up my first ever sump filter

The sump size is 4 x 1 x 18"

I'm wanting the holes drilled into the bottom of the tank so the tank can sit flush 2 the wall but I've been trawling the net for weeks now but can't find any real step by step guides on how to do the display tank pipework.

Im Wanting it as hidden as possible and so it both top skims and full tank turnover but preferably without a weir but still has a safety feature in place.....

Any help would be much appreciated

Regards Tom
 

tlindsey

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Welcome to MFK Tom:) Browse the diy section of this forum, type sump build in the search bar upper left corner. Also check out Diyfishkeepers. com. Glw your sump build. Btw other members will chime in .
 

ragin_cajun

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I just can't take it anymore.......:)


Part 1—Sump or Not?

What size pump should I use? Overflows? Should I go with a Sump or Canisters on my tank I’m ordering? How do I set up my sump?

These questions come up over and over again on MFK. So, this document is intended to compare options, and to present what I think is a pretty good design for most situations.

The first question to answer is whether you want to use a sump or not. The answer is yes if your tank requires more than 2 or 3 canisters to be properly filtered. Sumps are usually MUCH cheaper than canisters. In freshwater aquaria, they can be configured to be much easier to clean than a canister, too. But....cleaning 2-3 canisters? You get the idea. I’d say any tank bigger than 180 Gallons should be filtered with a sump instead of a canister.

Sumps provide a place to put injured fish, and fry. They take all the equipment out of the display tank, and move it into the sump--CA Cichlids break stuff sometimes. And they get violent with each other when they all run for the same hiding spot when you put your arm in the tank to adjust the heater. Sumps alleviate most of that. Sumps make drip systems possible. Tired of doing water changes? Well, you don’t have to anymore if you have a drip system. Sumps let you grow plants in the tank water, but the fish can’t tear at them. Those of you considering growing Pothos plants in tank water to reduce Nitrates might like the room a sump provides to grow those plants without fish nipping the roots. Sumps mean you don’t need airstones to “aerate the water” anymore. Sumps are a great place to keep sponge filters on hand and cycled if the need arises. And sumps are just roomier.

There are some disadvantages to sumps….not many, but some. Sumps require some planning. Sumps require some extra effort to run silent. And sumps will probably require you to DIY.

So you’ve decided your new 300 gallon tank is too big to run 3 canisters, and all the advantages of a sump you see above are applicable to your situation. Now what? How do you “design a sump”? Make no mistake, YOU’LL have to design it because only YOU know the answers that affect the design decisions. How will the tank be stocked? Will the tank be in a room that requires it to drain silently, or in a basement so nobody cares how loud it is? How much space do I have around the tank? How these questions affect the design of the sump will be discussed in the next installation.
 

ragin_cajun

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Part 2 Some Types of Sumps
So…….what KIND of sump do you want to have? More specifically, how will your sump achieve mechanical filtration of water, and biological/biochemical filtration of water. Mechanical filtration is done with foam mats, chambers with floss material, porous cloths. Foam mats and filter socks are easily the most common methods. A foam mat will have baffles that direct water through, instead of around, the foam mat. The mat catches trash and lets the filtered water move through. A filter sock is a sock that water falls into. As water moves out of the sock, the sock catches trash. Of the two, filter socks are marginally better when there is plenty of room under the stand to change them. Water cannot bypass a sock that’s working correctly. Socks are usually, though not always, faster to change than mats. They might be cheaper, too. Socks are attractive because they don’t require baffles, or chambers, to be constructed in the sump. Just devise a way to hang the sock, and leave the sump completely open. (more on that later). Either way, something needs to keep your tank water clean so it looks nice, and so it doesn’t deposit gunk on your bio-media.

Biological/biochemical filtration means providing some medium for bacteria to live on in your sump. The bacteria will transform ammonia/fish waste into relatively harmless nitrates. This media can be bio-balls, rocks of various types, “K1”, or nothing at all if your tank will have very few fish. Bio-balls are expensive, take up lots of room, and get dirty. K1 is the most effective bio-media, but it’s expensive, hard to find, and it requires air pumps to get it moving, keep it moving, and moving fast enough, but not too fast, and all of the K1 needs to move, so no dead spots, and it needs some kind of baffled chamber in the sump, and on and on and on. K1 starts to seem like a hobby unto itself.

There are easier, and super cheap options for bio-filtration—lava rock comes to mind. Not elegant, but effective and cheap. Just put it in the sump, let bacteria grow on it over time, and you’re done. No air pump required, no extra requirements for mechanical agitation like with K1, just have it in some water. Bacteria will live in it, and take ammonia out of your water.

Many aquarists believe that with heavy stocking, or large livestock (like stingrays, arowana, P-Bass), comes a requirement for more bacteria, which means a little better media than plain lava rock. Though hotly debated, it’s probably a good idea to splurge for a reasonably priced “matrix” type product that is more suitable as a medium for these bacteria. Seachem Matrix, Pond Matrix, or locally procured “pumice stone” if you can find a good cheap source near you. These products boast “more surface area” for bacteria to colonize. Most importantly, they have enough surface area that you can be comfortable just putting some in a nylon bag, dropping it in the sump water, and knowing that you’ll have enough bacteria in a colony to support all but the most outrageous stocking levels in even a large tank (300-600 gallons). We know this works. And it’s just about as easy as bio-filtration gets, though not quite as cheap as the Lava Rock option.

So, the type of sump you’ll have means what kind of mechanical filtration (socks or mats), and what kind of bio-media (K1, Bio-Balls, or Matrix in a laundry bag).
 

ragin_cajun

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Part 3 Baffles?
Notice that as the filtration options were presented, one of the criteria for choosing between them was whether or not they’d require “baffles”. Baffles are walls built inside the sump that create smaller chambers within the sump. Water passes from once chamber to the next on its way to the pump and back up to the display tank. Maybe you want a chamber to put plants into so they won’t get sucked up by your pumps. Maybe you want a chamber for animals to live in your sump. Maybe you have equipment that requires a constant water level, so you set up some baffles to achieve that in your sump. You need baffles to combat air bubbles. All reasons that you probably won’t run into if you have a big freshwater tank with CA Cichlids in it. If you have submersible pumps, they come with a cage to keep stuff out. Any fry/feeders you may have in the sump don’t get sucked up by the pump……too much. Pothos plants, and floating plants, don’t need baffles. Bubbles are a saltwater problem, not freshwater.

What else baffles do is provide a place for slime and gunk to collect. If you ever have to clean your sump, they make that job much harder than it needs to be. So why even have baffles? Well……don’t. If you can’t think of any good reason to have baffles and chambers in your sump, then just don’t put any.

And if you don’t want to have baffles, because they’re inconvenient, and more work and effort than really needed, then that means you use filter socks, and lava rock or matrix/pumice stone, in a nylon bag with plenty of holes for water to pass over the media. Nothing else. Simple, highly effective, and easy to clean out. AND, if you put a power head in an open sump, you never have anything collect on the bottom of the sump—filter socks will catch it eventually.
 

ragin_cajun

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Part 4 Flow…and Overflows
So, you’ve thought all this through, and you’ve likely decided your sump should be cheap, and easy, but also effective. You’ve probably settled on an open sump with no baffles, Pond Matrix in a bag, and filter socks.

Next decide what your “turnover rate” will be. Your tank is 300 gallons, and most would agree that you want 8-10 times turnover per hour on a freshwater CA cichlid tank. So, that means you’ll want 3000 Gallon per hour. Your pump, or pumps, need to put 3000 gallons of water into the tank every hour for big 12 inch fish to have some water flow they can be happy with.

So find a pump, or two, that will do that. Some pumps are submersible, and some are not. Submersible is good because they’re silent, and they’ll put some heat in the water, since they just sit underwater in the sump. So your heaters will run a little less. Submersibles are bad because they take lots of space in the sump. (But you don’t have baffles, so what do you care how much room pumps take up. Nothing else is using all that space.) You may not have room under your tank stand for a 125 gallon sump, so you might not want to just put pumps in the sump water. External pumps are outside the tank, usually pretty high quality, and easier to change if you ever have to. But, you also have to drill a hole in the side of your sump, and every hole has potential to leak one day. External pumps normally mean one big one. Submersible pumps usually mean 2 inside the sump, taking up more space, but giving you some redundancy in case of a pump failure. You need to weigh these things, make decisions.

So, let’s say you’ve decided on a pair of nice submersible pond pumps, putting just about 3000 gallons into your tank. Plenty of flow. Now, you have to figure out how to drain 3000 gallons per hour. That shouldn’t be too hard, though. If you know 3000 GPH goes into the tank, then you need to drain…………….3000 gallons per hour! If you drain less than 3000 GPH, then your floor will catch it, which is probably not what you want. And you can’t drain MORE than 3000 GPH (think about that). So you simply look up the drain rate of various sizes of pipe, figure out how many drains, and what sizes they’ll need to be, and be sure your tank has AT LEAST that many holes. If not, you’ll put more holes in your tank, or tell the tank builder to put them, or drain water outta the tank without adding holes (HOB Overflow).

Next, you’ll probably need to drain this water SILENTLY. 3000 GPH of water dropping 4-5 feet into a sump is INCREDIBLY LOUD. Louder than a washing machine, a toilet, a shower. You can’t watch TV, or sleep, or talk on the phone, in a room with that kinda water drainage happening if you don’t do something to silence it.

The way to drain silently is to keep the draining water under siphon. Laminar flow. Non-turbulent flow. With no air going into the drain line. Air makes the noise. The three overflow designs that achieve laminar, non-turbulent flow of water in a drain are Durso, Herbie, and Beanimal overflow systems. Herbie and Beanimal use a finely adjustable gate valve to restrict the rate of drain to exactly match the rate of pump output. They also use “backup”, “emergency”, or “E” drains to ensure there’s a way to drain water if the gate gets clogged, the pump speeds up, etc. To have silent drains, you’ll probably have to drill extra holes for an extra drain or two.

The Durso method was the first silent overflow method and it is still commonly used today. With a Durso, a hole is drilled into a high point of the drain line, and the amount of air allowed to enter into the drain with the water is precisely controlled by altering the size of the air-hole.

Which method should you choose? Well, the Durso needs only one drain pipe. The Herbie and Beanimal need an extra “E” Drain, so that’s more holes, and bigger overflow boxes to hide an extra drain pipe. The Herbie and Durso can still be accommodated by an internal overflow box, so the tank can be flush against the back of the wall. They also need periodic adjustment—the Durso more than the Herbie. The Beanimal, on the other hand, automatically adjusts itself to changes in drain rate and pump output. But, it also requires 3 drain lines—a main siphon drain, a dry “E” Drain, and a 3rd drain that is called…let’s just call it “the backup”. That many drains should probably be run in a horizontal overflow box called a “coast to coast overflow”. Coast-to-Coast overflows are VERY nice because they take up space only along the top of the tank, leaving the floor space of the tank completely open for fish. But, Beanimal drains also usually mean the drain pipes that run to the sump are routed outside the tank, behind the back wall. So, the tank now takes up more space in your house.

If you read MFK all the time, then you probably want to order the absolute biggest tank that will fit in the room. So you might really NEED the tank flush against the wall. Or not.

So, a Durso is easy to plumb, but it might not be totally quiet in your situation. Herbie is dead silent, harder to plumb than a Durso, but can still use an internal or corner overflow inside the tank. Beanimal is as silent as a Herbie, AND it requires no adjustment. But, you’ll probably have to go to the trouble of running a coast-to-coast overflow box, and drains outside the back wall of the tank. Beanimal and coast-to-coast is nicer, but it’s more work to install, and it takes up additional room outside the tank.

So there you go—you DO need a sump. You almost certainly DON’T need baffles in it. And you can make the sump run silent as a grave with a little extra thought and effort. So, save your money, apply for a credit card, or sell something, and order that custom acrylic 450 Gallon you’ve been daydreaming about.
 

ragin_cajun

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ragin_cajun

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A chart showing the drain rate of different size PVC pipes...

GPHpipe.png
 
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ragin_cajun

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And here is a quick write up.....and an EXCELLENT animation showing how a sump works. It's very helpful to look at this animation, and think through what a sump is doing, to understand how it works and why you're doing all this. http://www.melevsreef.com/node/1658

If you can go to a Local Fish Store and see their sumps in person, that would help too.

Sumps are very hard to explain in writing. But if you look at one, you understand it instantly.
 
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