The Erythristic Gar Conundrum...

[E_americanus]

Hi All,

I am posting this image here so as to foster discussion on this topic as we have seen some specimens come up recently that are loosely being described as erythristic gars. Personally I don't agree with that categorization as we have seen similar unusual patterns in FLGs, and if that is considered a "red gar" then we have definitely seen some similar patterns (we did think they were quite unusual) over the course of our multi-year spotted gar surveys. Unfortunately the photos don't do them justice compared to seeing them live (plus we were using the field camera), but you can see in the attached image that we have caught individuals with unusual red pigmentation before.

I am yet to see a specimen that I (or Richard based on our discussions, and he was there when we were catching these fish) would classify as a true erythristic gar. They are nowhere near the obvious color morphs that we see in xanthics, leucistics, or melanistic fish. I'm interested in hearing from everyone else--
--solomon

 

[Egon]

Subscribed
This discussion is out of my league but I will quietly listen in

 

[E_americanus]

Subscribed
This discussion is out of my league but I will quietly listen in

open to all opinions man!--
--solomon

 

[Egon]

open to all opinions man!--
--solomon

LOL I don't even know some of the words your using. I'm just going to sit back, sip my beer, and watch you guys work this out.

 

[M4ttSyke]

I may not have experience in gars since they're illegal in my state, however i personally don't think its a "true" erythristic gar because there is only slight red.

for me to truly classify a fish as melanistic, leucistic, xanthic etc. There would have to be a very striking color-morph on that fish.

maybe those gar are having a slight color-morph from the environment they are living in since it is constantly being altered from pollution and other man-made causes.

again all of this is IMO.

 

[M4ttSyke]

 

[pharmaecopia]

Interesting. I currently have a florida that has an overall orangeish colour that came in with a batch of wild floridas. Definitely not something I would describe as erythristic though. Not sure if the colour will hold up over time or change as it's diet and environment change.

As far as the specimen in yur photo. I personally wouldn't describe it as erythristic. This brings to mind the "red gar" juveniles that you had posted previously on AP. Most of these, if I remember correctly, ended up with normal colour patterns after a while.

 

[JNason11]

Doesn't look convincing enough for me. Looks like environment may have changed this guy. Idk but it just looks like he has all the "Florida Gar" patterns and they have been tinted red on him. The tail although looks very interesting, it looks like it holds a lot of that red color. Looks cool anyway...

Sent from my HTC Hero S using MonsterAquariaNetwork App

 

[E_americanus]

Interesting. I currently have a florida that has an overall orangeish colour that came in with a batch of wild floridas. Definitely not something I would describe as erythristic though. Not sure if the colour will hold up over time or change as it's diet and environment change.

As far as the specimen in yur photo. I personally wouldn't describe it as erythristic. This brings to mind the "red gar" juveniles that you had posted previously on AP. Most of these, if I remember correctly, ended up with normal colour patterns after a while.

thanks for the replies everyone; again, i am just looking for general discussion here, so don't hesitate to comment. also, for reference, i am talking about the FLG's that xander had posted here:

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?505955-Red-amp-White-gar

and i'm not saying xander is calling them red gars formally either, but that is what they were being pitched as at the store and what seems to pass as a "red variant" so far. again, i am not convinced this is what we would expect from a true erythristic individual, nor would i classify the fish that i have posted as such...just an unusual variant that we see from time to time.

as noted by others, environment has something to play with this, but genetics will too. unfortunately it seems as though these "weaker" color variants drastically change their color with age. Kevin, i am not sure what red gars i had posted before, but i did post some xanthic gars that definitely started with a sunburst pattern that quickly faded and was eventually lost as the gars developed (i actually still have the one i posted pics of way back in 2003-2004 --- looks totally normal except for one gold scale it hung on to for quite some time).

again, feel free to comment anyone--
--solomon

 

[pharmaecopia]

If I remember correctly it was some juvie wild caught spotteds that were red in colour. But as they grew they turned normal. You might have referred to them as sunbust, not sure, and haven't been able to access that forum for months now.


As far as the gars Xander had previously posted I would think that this is mainly through selective breeding of closely related broodstock. Which would heighten the possibility of getting different colours to breed through. Seems to be how most colour forms and variations show up, but usually gets accompanied by something else. As in how the gars xander posted the features just seem "off".