Tiger Shovelnose Catfish 660 gal (YES or NO)

Zeke

Banned
Jan 29, 2014
888
13
18
47
chattavegas
My P.faciatum is about 7". It has grown from 2" to 7" in about 50 days. I feed it a variety of foods, from earthworms to whole thawed fish. Cannot get it to accept white shrimp or pellets yet. It may be one of the stubborn ones, like I've owned in the past.IMAG0919.jpg

IMAG0919.jpg
 

raubiy

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Feb 8, 2015
713
60
31
29
♛ Slovenija ♛
Zeke great loking platystoma fasciatum :D
Just 1 year and you will enjoy MONSTER.
I'm thinking about sorubim lima. It's closest looking fish.
I just wanted 1 cat for my next set up.
My wife said i can go as big as i wand. But bills and everything.
I don't know 660gal is bigest i can afford.

Tnx thebigerthebeter for you reply
I alredy read about this species on google.
You are right fish must turn. And i don't wanted to see any fish suffer.
How long u think will take to Monster size 104 cm ?
 

thebiggerthebetter

Senior Curator
Staff member
MFK Member
Dec 31, 2009
15,712
14,064
3,910
Naples, FL, USA
... I'm thinking about sorubim lima. It's closest looking fish...
Lima or rather "lima" shovelnose (LSN) is a much better candidate but buying LSN can be tricky. IME chances are you will get a Sorubim elongatus with a max of 1', versus lima's 2'. I have a small write-up on this issue. Let me know if you'd like me to provide it here.

... You are right fish must turn...
Don't get me wrong. 3' fish will turn ok in a 80"x80". The point is that if it wants to swim around, it will be doing mostly turns.

... How long u think will take to Monster size 104 cm ?
Starting from 3"-4", an average healthy TSN (from a fish farm) will get to 1.5'+ in 1 year. The LFSs that get farmed TSNs appear to be more often than not supplied with culls, runts, under-performing / looking fish, not rarely having genetic defects. A wild-caught one will more likely reach ~2' (better genes and better chance it won't be a fasciatum) in 1 year.

There are a lot of variables (genetics, diet, intensity of feeding and quality of food, accommodations, temperature, health, water quality, correct species ID, stunting, etc.) and, hence, the bell curve is not sharp but quite wide. It is not unusual to read the reports of a TSN reaching 2'+ in 1 year or only 1'+. As the extremes, I've read reports from our fellow hobbyists with 2-3 year old TSNs stuck at ~1.5' whilst other claim 1.5' growth in 0.5 year.

As for over 2', there appears to be little info out there. Perhaps very few survive into adulthood. My biggest one was a bit under 2' when I rescued it. When I lost it ~2 years later during a long-distance move, it was ~2.5'. In general, I think TSNs should reach ~3' in 5-10 years. Sadly, I have not yet held on to any TSNs that long.

Yudee-1.jpg

Yudee 1.jpg

Terrosto 1.jpg

Terroristo and group.jpg

Terroristo 2.jpg

Pirat and Crocateus.jpg

Jo and Terroristo.jpg

Genik.jpg

Crocateus.JPG
 

raubiy

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Feb 8, 2015
713
60
31
29
♛ Slovenija ♛
Thebigerthebeter I'm so happy you post some pics. tnx :D very cute loking tsn you have in there.
I like to read your small write about lima.

Pseudoplatystoma fasciatum I'm thinking i gona try. I must decide.

 

thebiggerthebetter

Senior Curator
Staff member
MFK Member
Dec 31, 2009
15,712
14,064
3,910
Naples, FL, USA
Lima maxes out at 2', elongatus at 1'.

Check out this thread which includes a relevant piece from the genus revision: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...elongatus-ID-thread&highlight=trigonocephalus

Here is a small write-up I made on lima/elongatus.

These are ambush predators that stay/float vertically, head down among vegetation pretending to be a twig or a plant and wait for a suitable prey to come by too close.

Young Sorubim species like the company of each other; adults don't care.

IME and IMO, the vast majority of people thinking they are buying a Sorubim lima are actually buying a Sorubim elongatus in the US, so chances are great that yours is S. elongatus, which tops out at 1', not 2' as S. lima does.

They are quite hard to tell apart from the exterior features for laymen like us: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=30938&hilit=+elongatus (that's one of mine I was trying hard to ID). As you could see, our colleague Back (high level hobbyist) from Finland thinks the position of the mandibular barbels with respect to the gular and other skull features may be telling. I do not remember this approach having been validated by a known respected ichthyologist personally but I think the latest genus revision justifies this ID approach.

I've never seen a 2' one in person, not even one longer than 11"-12" TL, while I have owned and seen scores of them. Mine never grew beyond ~11", which makes me assume they were all elongatus but I have not had them long enough to be dead sure. For now, this leads me to believe that most/almost all we have in the US are elongatus. I have seen only 1 or 2 approximately two-footers on the photos originating from the USA here on MFK (here are some pics of an almost fully grown lima: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...e-lima-shovelnose-catfish&highlight=elongatus ) and a few in between 1' and 2'. Our colleagues in Europe say they see 2'-ers sometimes, not that rarely.

The Cat-eLog entry for elongatus http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=697offers kind of soft ID: "...Very generally, Sorubim with spots are usually S. elongatus. (TBTB edit: as opposed to the other 4 species in this genus; this appears mostly true IME with ~20 of these fish.) They are more of a black water species and, as with most such species, tend towards more variable, spotted patterning."

They need not live feedings, unless we are talking earth worms or ghost shrimp, lizards, land frogs, etc. They are small predators that snatch small fish (anything that can fit in their mouth which is relatively and surprisingly big for their slender body structure but not that big compared to other medium and large Pimelodidae catfish), crustaceans, insects in the wild. I always feed mine frozen/thawed foods - small whole fishes, fish pieces, shrimp/prawn/etc. or their pieces if too large (do not peel; raw is better than cooked), and sea foods.

They can be trained to take pellets but the cases where they thrive on pellets are very few it appears to me, even on Hikari Massivore pellets. I have never seen them fat and happy on pellets, rather always thin and slow-growing. Anyone, correct me, please, if your experience differs.

When small, mine like freeze-dried and fresh bloodworms, plankton (mini-shrimp-like creatures), etc.

The growth on elongatus is not fast, perhaps 6"-7" in one year starting from ~3". As you see my experience with lima is most likely zero, so IDK how fast they grow. The fact that they reach 2x larger adult size may or may not matter.

Check this excellent link: http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/sorubim-lima/ - the info is well written and arranged. In the notes it says: " (TBTB: S. lima is) Distinguished from S. elongatus by having modally 9 pectoral rays; 21 anal-fin rays; 16 gill rakers..." The page does not state the counts for elongatus anywhere. Neither have I found a species page for S. elongatus. Unless I am missing something, I find this odd and not as helpful as it could have been otherwise. All other pointers refer to things that are subjective. Nevertheless, I enjoyed reading the page and learned a lot.

********************************************************************

Pseudoplatystoma fasciatum I'm thinking i gona try. I must decide.

You can certainly try it, I'd think, esp. if you have a plan to either upgrade within 1-2 years or have someone qualified who can take your outgrown fish.

TSN.JPG
 

raubiy

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Feb 8, 2015
713
60
31
29
♛ Slovenija ♛
Thebigerthebeter tnx for your great work ! :thumbsup:
You know everything about catfish. :D
 

thebiggerthebetter

Senior Curator
Staff member
MFK Member
Dec 31, 2009
15,712
14,064
3,910
Naples, FL, USA
Thanks :) but in seriousness no one knows everything about catfish, even if based on the fact that ~3,500 living catfish spp have already been described (still, out of these there is plenty that still needs additional work, TSN genus is one of them as mentioned above) and taxonomists believe that's only about 1/2 of what's out there. They say Amazon alone contains about 50%-100% more fish spp that have not been described by science yet.

As for me, I have done some work and reading but I am a rookie still. I always hope to be corrected, expanded, confirmed, refuted, etc. and hope to learn more. Only together, as a community can we claim to know a larger-than-insignificant portion of what's knowable about catfishes :)
 
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store