Ultima II 1000 or 2000 for my 1000 Gallon Setup

aldiaz33

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Jun 19, 2007
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Nice! This is going to be an epic tank! Looking forward to seeing your progress. Do they intend to build it on site, or ship it to you already built?

Have you considered going with acrylic? A glass tank with these dimensions is probably going to weigh upwards of a ton! The seams on acrylic tanks are much stronger and acrylic itself is much stronger than glass. Acrylic also has much better insulating properties. All else being equal, an acrylic tank may actually end up costing you less than glass.

For a tank this size I would go with an Ultima II 2000; you will have to backwash less frequently which it sounds like is one of your main goals (less maintenance). I agree with what others have said in regards to the 2” head; it is better because it creates less friction loss.

I would consider using different pumps from what your builder recommended. There are far more efficient pumps on the market that will save you lots on your electric bill and give you a lot more flow per watt. Below is a quick breakdown:

Sump Pump: Instead of the Water Blaster, consider a Laguna.
Water Blaster HY 10000- Does 1,300GPH @ 6’ head pressure on 175 watts.
Laguna Max-Flo 4200 – Does 2,935 GPH @ 6’ head pressure on 160 watts.

With the Laguna you get over twice the amount of flow, while using 15 less watts. It’s also less expensive. I have been running a Max-Flo 4200 for over a year and I am very happy with it (very quiet, well made and efficient pump with a 3 year warranty).

Ultima II 2000:
I would run a Reeflo Super Dart Gold on the Ultima II 2000. It gives you about 2,200GPH @10’ head while drawing only 178 watts. The Blue Line (although I understand they were recommending it for the Ultima II 1000) only does 600GPH @ 10’ head on 180 watts. You can run the larger filter with much more GPH on about the same wattage by using the Reeflo Super Dart Gold.
Note that the Ultima II 2000 models and larger are too tall to fit under a 32” tall stand.

I don’t understand your builder's filtration design sketch. It looks like the left overflow box drains into the sump (which is fine) and the right overflow box is feeding the Ultima (which would not be a good idea). In order to be able to backwash your Ultima, you want the intake to be well below the water’s surface (running a closed loop), otherwise you run the risk of not having enough water to fully backwash/clean the filter. Having the Ultima draw water from an overflow also runs the risk of drawing air into the unit, which is not something you want to do. If the intent is to draw water from the sump I think there are two good reasons not to do it this way: 1. You lose the ability to draw poop from the bottom (my tank is setup this way, with only surface skimming and I have to vacuum poop off the bottom all the time…if I could do it over, I would have something to draw water from lower levels of the tank) 2. You may run out of water to backwash the media if all you have is water from your sump.

Here’s what I would recommend:

Sump Filtration:
Plumb both the left and the right overflow boxes to drain into your sump. This will give you good surface skimming on both ends of your tank.

Ultima II 2000:
Drill two intake holes near the top of the back panel of the tank. Insert an elbow off of the bulkhead on the interior of the tank and run a pipe to the bottom of the tank to suck poop off the bottom. If you are having a background installed on the tank, it would be pretty easy to hide the pipes. I think this is how Pacumom has her tank setup and I think that's how she's going to run her new tank...I really like that design because if there are ever any issues with the bulkheads, it'll be easy to service/replace them (just drain a few inches of water and you're good versus having to drain the entire tank if the bulkhead were on the bottom. The odds of catastrophe are much lower when your bulkheads are high up on the tanks walls, versus on the bottom panel.

In regards to your returns, I like to run mine in from the top of the tank. You would obviously want the return for the sump to be at the water’s surface so that in the event of a backsiphon, your sump doesn’t flood. The return for your (closed loop) Ultima can be anywhere, but I would probably have it coming in from the top of the tank as well.

Here’s a visual of how I would configure your drains/intakes.
Plumbing.jpg

Plumbing.jpg
 
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Albertan

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Jan 28, 2007
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The builder's sketch does not show the Ultima drawing from the stump. The sump has its own little pump in the sketch. The optimal flow rates for Ultimas match the model number, i.e., Ultima 1000 = 1000 gph, Ultima 2000 = 2000 gph, Ultima 4000 = 4000 gph. If you are going to get an Ultima, perhaps you should choose the one with the flow rate you want. Truthfully, I bought my Ultimas a couple of years ago little dreaming that my tank would not be set up yet. If I were purchasing filters today, I would probably go with one Ultima and a Wave...the reviews are that good on the Wave.
Yeah, the builder's sketch is not the greatest I know. Now that I think about it, I believe his intent is to run it in a closed loop setup off the tank. And it will definitely need its own pump to operate...it's not inline with the sump. In talking with some others, I may need to shoot for a flow rate considerably higher than even the Ultima 4000. That's why I am asking questions. :)

I'll look into the Wave. Thanks.
 

Albertan

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Jan 28, 2007
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Nice! This is going to be an epic tank! Looking forward to seeing your progress. Do they intend to build it on site, or ship it to you already built?

Have you considered going with acrylic? A glass tank with these dimensions is probably going to weigh upwards of a ton! The seams on acrylic tanks are much stronger and acrylic itself is much stronger than glass. Acrylic also has much better insulating properties. All else being equal, an acrylic tank may actually end up costing you less than glass.

For a tank this size I would go with an Ultima II 2000; you will have to backwash less frequently which it sounds like is one of your main goals (less maintenance). I agree with what others have said in regards to the 2” head; it is better because it creates less friction loss.

I would consider using different pumps from what your builder recommended. There are far more efficient pumps on the market that will save you lots on your electric bill and give you a lot more flow per watt. Below is a quick breakdown:

Sump Pump: Instead of the Water Blaster, consider a Laguna.
Water Blaster HY 10000- Does 1,300GPH @ 6’ head pressure on 175 watts.
Laguna Max-Flo 4200 – Does 2,935 GPH @ 6’ head pressure on 160 watts.

With the Laguna you get over twice the amount of flow, while using 15 less watts. It’s also less expensive. I have been running a Max-Flo 4200 for over a year and I am very happy with it (very quiet, well made and efficient pump with a 3 year warranty).

Ultima II 2000:
I would run a Reeflo Super Dart Gold on the Ultima II 2000. It gives you about 2,200GPH @10’ head while drawing only 178 watts. The Blue Line (although I understand they were recommending it for the Ultima II 1000) only does 600GPH @ 10’ head on 180 watts. You can run the larger filter with much more GPH on about the same wattage by using the Reeflo Super Dart Gold.
Note that the Ultima II 2000 models and larger are too tall to fit under a 32” tall stand.

I don’t understand your builder's filtration design sketch. It looks like the left overflow box drains into the sump (which is fine) and the right overflow box is feeding the Ultima (which would not be a good idea). In order to be able to backwash your Ultima, you want the intake to be well below the water’s surface (running a closed loop), otherwise you run the risk of not having enough water to fully backwash/clean the filter. Having the Ultima draw water from an overflow also runs the risk of drawing air into the unit, which is not something you want to do. If the intent is to draw water from the sump I think there are two good reasons not to do it this way: 1. You lose the ability to draw poop from the bottom (my tank is setup this way, with only surface skimming and I have to vacuum poop off the bottom all the time…if I could do it over, I would have something to draw water from lower levels of the tank) 2. You may run out of water to backwash the media if all you have is water from your sump.

Here’s what I would recommend:

Sump Filtration:
Plumb both the left and the right overflow boxes to drain into your sump. This will give you good surface skimming on both ends of your tank.

Ultima II 2000:
Drill two intake holes near the top of the back panel of the tank. Insert an elbow off of the bulkhead on the interior of the tank and run a pipe to the bottom of the tank to suck poop off the bottom. If you are having a background installed on the tank, it would be pretty easy to hide the pipes. I think this is how Pacumom has her tank setup and I think that's how she's going to run her new tank...I really like that design because if there are ever any issues with the bulkheads, it'll be easy to service/replace them (just drain a few inches of water and you're good versus having to drain the entire tank if the bulkhead were on the bottom. The odds of catastrophe are much lower when your bulkheads are high up on the tanks walls, versus on the bottom panel.

In regards to your returns, I like to run mine in from the top of the tank. You would obviously want the return for the sump to be at the water’s surface so that in the event of a backsiphon, your sump doesn’t flood. The return for your (closed loop) Ultima can be anywhere, but I would probably have it coming in from the top of the tank as well.

Here’s a visual of how I would configure your drains/intakes.
View attachment 887935
Thanks Alex. All good info, especially the pumps. The more I read, the more I think I am going to be changing things up from what the builder suggested. The tank will be an Amazon biotope tank with a lot of large Cichla. It was mentioned that relying on powerheads to stir things up on the bottom could add significantly to water turbidity. I have quite a few things to rethink after a day spent reading on this forum. But that's why I am here. :) Thanks again for your help.
 

Rayne

Jack Dempsey
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Sep 9, 2010
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One other thing about the Vortechs. The largest model, the MP60's, are only good up to 1" of glass thickness. Not sure how thick your glass is but I imagine it might be thicker than that. I had thoughts of using them on my 600G build since I already got an Apex and an WXM module to control them, but I opted to go closed loop instead due to cost. At $800 a pop and the fact that I'd probably need at least 2 of them I decided against it.
 

Albertan

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MFK Member
Jan 28, 2007
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The tank utilizes 19mm (3/4") glass. I'm looking at some other options at the moment as well. What the builder suggests can certainly work. But there may be turbidity issues stirring everything up daily. I think sand would likely be out of the question as well and I am still trying to figure a way to use it.
 

Albertan

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MFK Member
Jan 28, 2007
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You might check out this thread.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...YOUR-FISH!!!!!!&highlight=ultimate+filtration


Some people are really into WLim glass bead filters.

When it comes to Ultimas, some people feel that they don't provide adequate mechanical filtration. But I guess you have it covered since you're into filter socks. When it comes to filtration, most fishkeepers feel that "bigger is better". There is one MFK member who runs two Ultimas, because he believes in redundant filtration. He purges one Ultima at a time. I too, like the idea of bigger/better/redundant. We'll be going with two Ultima 4000s primarily for biological filtration and six Pentair Rainbow RTL-100s for mechanical filtration on our big tank set up. Our large sump will be more of a holding tank, although one Ultima will be plumbed to the sump and returning the water to the main tank.

When it comes to filtration, you can't have too much. :)
Well that thread took several hours to get through...good thread though. Lots of topics were covered and it's helped to piece together my setup.

ATM, with the help of some forum members far more knowledgeable than myself, I'm leaning towards a pair of Ultima 2000s and a wlim glass bead filter to augment the mechanical filtration. The multiple Ultimas are mainly to help with backwashes so I don't drain the tank too low with any one filter. Hard to believe that is still a concern with a tank this size, but those Ultimas like a lot of water to backwash. The wlim uses much less. Those three filters should provide adequate amouonts of both mechanical and biological filtration and support my target flow rate of 10,000GPH...I'm looking for around 10X turnover for the large Cichla that will eventually call the tank home.

And finally, I'm actually thinking about eliminating the sump from my setup. It's hard to get a sump to flow enough to contribute significantly to that 10,000GPH goal. My only concern is losing the surface skimming properties of the sump.

As always, I'd love to hear any critiques/suggestions/comments. And thanks for the help. :)
 

kendragon

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MFK Member
Mar 23, 2009
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You still can skim without the sump. Just install a no niche skimmer in a internal box. Skimmers love to eat Hikari Cichlid Gold Floating pellets.
 

Albertan

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MFK Member
Jan 28, 2007
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What are your thoughts on the necessity of a skimmer on a build like this Ken? I have one tank now that always seems to have a film on the top. The others are fine.
 

pacu mom

Goliath Tigerfish
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Jun 8, 2006
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Well that thread took several hours to get through...good thread though. Lots of topics were covered and it's helped to piece together my setup.

ATM, with the help of some forum members far more knowledgeable than myself, I'm leaning towards a pair of Ultima 2000s and a wlim glass bead filter to augment the mechanical filtration. The multiple Ultimas are mainly to help with backwashes so I don't drain the tank too low with any one filter. Hard to believe that is still a concern with a tank this size, but those Ultimas like a lot of water to backwash. The wlim uses much less. Those three filters should provide adequate amouonts of both mechanical and biological filtration and support my target flow rate of 10,000GPH...I'm looking for around 10X turnover for the large Cichla that will eventually call the tank home.

And finally, I'm actually thinking about eliminating the sump from my setup. It's hard to get a sump to flow enough to contribute significantly to that 10,000GPH goal. My only concern is losing the surface skimming properties of the sump.

As always, I'd love to hear any critiques/suggestions/comments. And thanks for the help. :)
If you decide against a sump, then you won't need those two external overflow boxes. Here's another option for that sump:

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...or-Large-FW-Systems&highlight=Koi+Enterprises

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=425493&d=1257223984

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=429604&d=1258090791

When I read the first thread, I decided I had to have one for my big set up, so I purchased an Clarity CL-3. duanes has been fabricating DIY biofractionators that accomplish the same thing.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?470860-Bio-fractionation

Freshwater protein skimmers are an interesting concept.


I have a real aversion to holes drilled in the bottom and sides of my tank and prefer my plumbing coming through the top of my tank. I had my tank builder put eleven holes across the top of my tank for my main mechanical/bio filtration. If you are going with just tiles on your floor, you should consider placing a number of your mechanical uptakes just off the floor--I call them "poop suckers". Any debris on the floor gets quickly whisked away. I found a source for black PVC, if you're at all interested in black pipe, PM me. Since our tank has to be bare and undecorated, we decided to turn our poop sucker pipes into trees of different sizes. Here's one of the pipes that still needs to be painted.




You might want to reconsider the 10000 gph turnover rate. Your tank will be a virtual whirlpool.

VLDesign runs an Ultima 6000 with two Hammerhead pumps on his 2600 gallon tank.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...16005-My-new-2600-gallon-plywood-tank-project

bigrich545 is using a 10000 gph pump on his Ultima 30000 on his 4,000, 1,000, 800, 800 + a huge pool system.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...-tank-1-000-gallon-tank-many-others-and-ponds


This is the Hammerhead action in a 300 gallon tank. The current is strong and very swift.
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