Unpopular Opinions - Hybrid Cichlids

FINWIN

Alligator Gar
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"Ugly"..."meh"..."better looking"..."ugly asf"...it sounds as thought the only criterion for whether or not they should exist is whether or not they fit your personal idea of what looks good. Those that don't are "pointless"?

Most dog breeds were originally bred for a purpose or a job, whether that be hunting, retrieving game, defense, etc...but, yeah, many breeds are also bred for their goofy looks, just like fish. Domestic cattle were developed originally for the qualities that make them valuable in agriculture: milk production, meat production, easy handling (i.e. docility)...but, yeah, there are "fancy" breeds of cattle also, bred for appearance, just like fish. And those are single species, simply linebred to develop or subdue certain traits. All dogs are the same species, as are all cattle and horses and other domestic animals. But hybrid fish are crosses between two different wild species, and are all pointless! Even the very few fish that have been bred to do a job...Betta splendens leaps to mind here, and the job would be to win money for their owners by killing other bettas...have now been goofed up and repackaged to the point where they are useless for that original purpose.

Almost all the bison in the U.S. today have a significant admixture of genetic material from domestic cattle; cross-breeding was done to inject some of the docility and other benefits of cattle into the giant pile of wonderful meat that is a bison. Nowadays, there remain only a couple of herds of "pure" bison...I italicize that word because you seem to think that it is somehow evil or funny, but it's not...still in existence. The word used to describe a species that has been crossbred out of existence as a pure form...is "extinct".

But, hey...as long as they look cool, what else really matters?
I'm just having fun with the hybrid/purity arguments...mileage may vary. Just poking a stick....besides, everyone who reads my threads knows I love parrots. I like flowerhorns too, but not at first. Shoot, humans are hybrids according to scientists, so there you go. Any extreme view is liable to hit a wall since nature always mutates and adapts new characteristics over time. Hybridization occurs naturally although some species don't do it. When species overlap geography is where diversity usually occurs. Its unknown if even the current natural strains of fish aren't genetic mutations/hybrids that stabilzed from ancient past. Artificially created strains is a different deal. At the end of the day if the species is healthy and functional who cares what they look like. I said in another thread it isn't a beauty contest (where humans have their own prejudices and opinions over what is beauty).

The thing with dogs goes beyond goofy looks. A lot of the breeds that drool can't close their mouth due to genetic deformity (sound familiar?). Or they have chronic breathing issues, kidney and heart conditons, or prone to weak bones. Larger the dog breed, shorter the lifespan. Or the longhairs who get constant eye infections from hair in their eyelids called tear eye or black eye. Crazy stuff. I used to trim/disinfect dog's eyes. Not fun.

I've always been big on personality over looks. Beauty is only scale deep. LOL You can like a pretty fish, but you'll love one with personality.
 

GolemGolem

Piranha
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Purity is lovely and valuable. Trying to protect purity normally makes something dark, perverted, over-complicated, and quite corrupt.
So whatever, my cheap convicts from the lfs are not pure, but they didn't try and tell me they are something they are not, and they are neat. Don't like flowerhorns with huge koks, but without I think they look pretty good personally....but I don't really care as long as my tanks are mostly healthy with fish I mostly like.
 
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jjohnwm

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I couldn't agree more about the overly-caricatured dogs and other critters. Breeding for some characteristic you like, even if it's just cosmetic, is one thing...but creating animals that can barely function is quite another.

Sure there are hybrids in nature...Mule Deer are a naturally-occurring hybrid between eastern Whitetails and west-coast Blacktails, which met in the middle and created the Mule Deer, bigger than either parent and now extremely widespread throughout half the continent. But they are fully functioning animals...they can reproduce, eat and perform all the other natural functions required to survive in nature. No weakened immune systems or distorted physical characteristics that prevent them from competing and surviving. It would be foolish to think that there haven't been many other such chance hybrids that failed the survival game because of such flaws. And, IMHO, it isn't ethical to artificially create and perpetuate such flawed combinations, or to even encourage cross-breeding between two different species/subspecies/populations which would never have met in nature...let's remember, now, this thread asked for unpopular opinions! :)

And the term "hybrid" is used to define a cross between two separate, usually closely-related species...but the whole concept of species is an artificial construct. Three different fish might be separate species in the same genus today...but tomorrow they will merely be subspecies, while yesterday they were actually assigned to three completely different genera. Which of these concepts is "correct"? All of them...and none of them...it's all just semantics.

What we as the dominant species on the planet are doing to nature is best described by the title of a long-running stage production that was popular in Toronto for several decades: "I love you...you're perfect...now change!" :)
 
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jjohnwm

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...Purity is lovely and valuable...
Agree!


...Trying to protect purity normally makes something dark, perverted, over-complicated, and quite corrupt...
Disagree...and find myself a little creeped out by this sentiment...


...but I don't really care as long as my tanks are mostly healthy with fish I mostly like...
And that's one of the biggest problems the natural world faces today.

Apathy is a terrible thing...but, really...who cares?
 
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GolemGolem

Piranha
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Think posh Brits in charge of conserving wildlife in Africa and the Indian sub-continent, they love the tigers and elephants, and don't respect the locals, so they go over a few towns and arm and pay some dudes to start a militia to stop the locals from dealing w/ their issues while demanding tribute. While the posh still invest in what makes money, which is bad for the natural world, and the paychecks for the militas relations that are in different lines of work.
or
Eh, I've been adjacent to small Christian cults most of my life, and find them more charming than the large ones. Still, lots of creepy daddies who have a shotgun for the neighbor boy and big tithes for the creepy old man who's been balling his kid since middle school. The creepy old man will be protected, might have a very short prison sentence if they are not very good at protecting. The kid is on their own to find other rejects to form a community out of, and might find something pure there.
 

FINWIN

Alligator Gar
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This is where I draw the line at lunacy...I grew up with cool mollies, but 'balloon' mollies just...no. The proportions are even off. They have beautiful patterns, but the shape is just wrong...as an artist this makes my eyes water to see.

The Pearlscale goldfishes are getting more insane by the year. They pretty much just wiggle in place and can't even swim, their fins are like decorations.

balloon molly.jpg

max pearl.jpg
 

GolemGolem

Piranha
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If there was a long-body gene that made fish look like pikes, or even better spiny eels do you think they would be as popular? I'd like it, esp if it didn't shorten life or limit tank-mates, but the clumsy bumbling about of SB fishes seems to be one of their most loved attributes.
 
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Aquatic Aggression

Redtail Catfish
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The Pearlscale goldfishes are getting more insane by the year. They pretty much just wiggle in place and can't even swim, their fins are like decorations.


View attachment 1496657
Pearlscales are pretty much the same as they have been since their origin in the 1960s. Now there are some pearlscale varieties with massive head crowns too. People in Singapore have bred a line with telescope eyes on them even. It's crazy to have so many debilitating traits on a single fish, even crazier that some of them are quite long living considering.
The argument for purity is fine. Ignorance and then spouting that ignorance around like some jackass is what isn't acceptable. Those who say things like "when you cross _____ x _____ some will look like one parent and others will look like the other" etc. If you're going to have a stand against something at least understand how these things work. Or the constant ebjd thing i.e. "I hate hybrids but love ebjd because they are pure" - no no no. Once again understand how things work before making ridiculous statements and crusades.
Currently crouching over tubs with ranchu goldfish fry and sbrt myself. Pure fish belong in the wild...
 

FINWIN

Alligator Gar
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If there was a long-body gene that made fish look like pikes, or even better spiny eels do you think they would be as popular? I'd like it, esp if it didn't shorten life or limit tank-mates, but the clumsy bumbling about of SB fishes seems to be one of their most loved attributes.
There have been studies done by scientists saying that on a primal level, humans like round objects as they represent comfort and the womb. Babies are shown to have this preference. It definitely explains the development of so many round fish that are extremely popular.

I would say arowanas and bichir are very popular long fish.
 
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FINWIN

Alligator Gar
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Pearlscales are pretty much the same as they have been since their origin in the 1960s. Now there are some pearlscale varieties with massive head crowns too. People in Singapore have bred a line with telescope eyes on them even. It's crazy to have so many debilitating traits on a single fish, even crazier that some of them are quite long living considering.
The argument for purity is fine. Ignorance and then spouting that ignorance around like some jackass is what isn't acceptable. Those who say things like "when you cross _____ x _____ some will look like one parent and others will look like the other" etc. If you're going to have a stand against something at least understand how these things work. Or the constant ebjd thing i.e. "I hate hybrids but love ebjd because they are pure" - no no no. Once again understand how things work before making ridiculous statements and crusades.
Currently crouching over tubs with ranchu goldfish fry and sbrt myself. Pure fish belong in the wild...
Yeah I've seen the pearls with telescope eyes, huge crowns etc. Personally I don't have a stand against anything. I get fish I like and have personality. I don't make it any more complicated than that. Anybody doesn't like it, tough. They can buy what they want.

I've had orandas and ranchu as well. Didn't need to see their dna report to buy. But some of the pearls just seem bigger than ever to me. I used to crack up at the telescope eye goldies too. Most anything can pop their eye sacs so they have to be in bare bottom tanks.
 
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