What is the consensus with Southern Delight Fish food?

[RD.]

Tom, when you & I were kids TV was in black & white, it was believed by many that smoking ciggarettes wouldn't hurt you, and pesticides such as DDT were safe to spray in school grounds.


Just as in dog foods, the science behind fish foods is light years ahead of where it was 40-50 yrs ago. Dogs, and fish, are much healthier today due to that science.

 

[Aquanero]

LOL! I tell stories about that all the time. Driving home at night with my parents, sleeping on the ledge under the rear window. In a car with the windows rolled up and everybody smoking Chesterfields. Riding my bike without a helmet, no cell phones so nobody knew where you were when you went out. Playing army with toy guns (no one called SWAT). Playing stick ball in the middle of the street. How did we survive, I miss that world everyday, but I digress.

Yes I agree the foods available to us today are better then Tapioca flour and corn starch. No agument here.

 

[Jc1119]

John, NLS contained soybean isolate, which is worlds apart in quality, and cost, compared to the terrestrial based grains used in SD. Soy isolate is very high in protein (80+%) wihch means a much smaller inclusion rate could be used, and unlike most terrestrial based grains soy isolate contains no anti-nutritional matter. That's why it costs so much $$$$, and why you seldom see a fish food manufacturer using it in their food, and instead, using soybean meal, or whole soybeans, such as in SD. Pablo dropped isolate from NLS a couple of years ago after he began making his own foods on site at his own facility. To replace it he bumped up the herring & krill inclusion rates - which while costing more $$$, became doable once he removed the middle man (the feed mill) from the equation. SD can't do things like that because they are paying Zeigler for being their purchasing agent, and to make their food.


Again, I'm not arguing the fact that one can grow out a fish in a reasonable manner on any tropical fish food. Even the lowest quality crap based mostly on fiber will get the job done in a pinch. As an example, check out this pond set up, John. You'll appreciate this as I see that you just recently got into these fish.

http://madagascares.com/Ebooks/FishFarmUpdateJuly2013.pdf

For those that aren't familar with this species, these are Paratilapia pollini "Andapa", raised by the locals for food, and for introducing back into the local waters as most fish in this area are endangered, some even now extinct in the wild. The adult fish in that pic is approx 9", and their diet in that pond is 80% rice hulls, and 20% dried shrimp. Rice hulls have the nutritional equivalent of straw. 2-3% crude protein, .5% crude fat, 40% crude fiber, 30% carbohydrates, 15+% ash - you get the picture. They might as well been feeding these fish dried rabbit turds, yet they still grew and are in relatively good health. Perhaps they gleaned some nutrients from the pond via insects, larvae, etc, but the bulk of their diet was from the rice mash mix.


And while SD may have now removed feathers from their food, how does one trust a vendor who was just days ago defending the quality of those feathers? I'm quite certain that the fish farmers in Madagascar know, and would admit, that they are feeding low quality feed as they barely have enough food to feed themselves most days, but what's the excuse from the folks at SD?

Understood and thanks for the link!

I'd guess the SD folks saw its inclusion as a detriment (aka talking point) and provably figured it wasn't worth it in the long run. Especially with all the competition down this way in regards to fish food.

But that's just a guess. I myself was involved in a thread in our local group discussing feather meal in SD. A week later I'm told it's been removed from SD. Which, seems like a step in the right direction......




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[trace]

Understood and thanks for the link!

I'd guess the SD folks saw its inclusion as a detriment (aka talking point) and provably figured it wasn't worth it in the long run. Especially with all the competition down this way in regards to fish food.

But that's just a guess. I myself was involved in a thread in our local group discussing feather meal in SD. A week later I'm told it's been removed from SD. Which, seems like a step in the right direction......




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It is a step in the right direction and they are still a young company at least in terms of the food spoken of here. With enough steps like that one and as r.d said, possibly cutting out the middle man as NLS did, they could certainly become a competitor. They have some great people in their group so I won't put it past them. Only time will tell. I hope they do. Competition is great for everyone.


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[Jc1119]

It is a step in the right direction and they are still a young company at least in terms of the food spoken of here. With enough steps like that one and as r.d said, possibly cutting out the middle man as NLS did, they could certainly become a competitor. They have some great people in their group so I won't put it past them. Only time will tell. I hope they do. Competition is great for everyone.


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That was my thoughts too. I remember when NLS didn't exist and Hikari was the one to beat. NLS became an industry leader in the face of enormous competition from Hikari.



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[AQUAMONSTER]

A great point has been made in saying that SD is a young company and every company starts somewhere. Its growing and beginning starting to become available in fish shops. All I can say is SD for me has been a great staple diet for all my fish. Very little if no food gets wasted during feedings. Very little waste comes from this food when I do my weekly cleanings.

The SD company and the guys over at TAS are all great guys and play great roles in the hobby. I'm friends with them and have talked to many people over at SD and have no complaints. This brand will more than likely grow and become a top contender in this hobby. I'm not sponsored by either one of them but support good people that are just trying to bring something to the hobby and they listen to the consumer when it comes to making their product better. NLS is a great food along with hikari and I think comparing a young company to either isn't fair yet as both of those companies needed time to get it right. They probly had a bad following to start but I think with time SD will follow both companies as a provider of great fish food.

They have no problem letting you sample their product and want your feed back. There's no harm in trying something new. Worst thing that happens is you go back to your old food.

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[Endo]

I linked this thread to Facebook where Team ASS "Aquatic Support Systems" would be sure to see it giving them the chance to chime in. With no avail, it was referred to as another food war protest which they didn't want to partake in the "drama" lol I only asked for supportive information from them explaining the food.. All I got was a bunch of self defunding responses and comments about how Mfk sux and is dying forum that's gonna be replaced by hydra.. So needless to say, my efforts to get solid feedback from them failed.





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hahah good thinking Jason!
Of course their only excuse would be that MFK is dying when it is actually expanding...makes sense..
That is why they only post on youtube and if you haven't noticed, after every video they ask numerous amounts of times to "subscribe" for more SD videos.
Each one of those profiles of Team ASS (lol btw) has countless amounts of videos of SD and how its the best food out there, despite being the sponsors as well.
Like stated, first it was YFS, then Northfin was apparently the best, now its SD, what's next?
I don't even waste my time on their channels anymore since MFK is "dying", we keep it alive with what has been working "cough, NLS 'cough' "

In reality, they have no legitimate responses to the questions brought up here in this thread, so we are just on repeat talking to ourselves. Points have been made and no back up, so at least Im done here.
Thanks for all the clarification MFK, especially Neil.




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[RD.]

With enough steps like that one and as r.d said, possibly cutting out the middle man as NLS did, they could certainly become a competitor.

About that, the only way that one cuts out the middle man is to build (or buy) their own manufacturing facility, and make their own food. Any idea how many known commercial tropical fish food companies do that in the USA? I can count them on one hand, with a couple of fingers left over. NLS, Omega, HBH, and ?

The rest all rely on a commercial feed mill, such as Zeigler, Skretting, etc to make their food. Of course then you also have to rely on them for supplying the raw ingredients for that food, and if you don't know what the hell you are doing then you also have to rely on their in-house people to formulate that food. Everything that one adds to the recipe eats into the bottom line, which is exactly why one sees ingredients such as corn, soybeans, rice, feathers, etc-etc in a LOT of the foods out there. Xtreme also has their food made by Zeigler, and again, there's rice, soybeans, and extra ground wheat, beyond the wheat flour that is used as a binding agent.


No one is going to join this discussion and refute what I say, because these are stone cold facts that cannot be disputed. Money talks & BS walks, which as a business man I understand as well as the next person, a company has to make money to survive, just don't attempt to tell me that these kinds of raw ingredients, and these kinds of fish foods, are even remotely close to the top contenders in the fish food industry. To do so only makes one look like they just fell off the turnip truck. lol



I have no issue with anyone bringing something new to the hobby, but bringing a commercial food that is developed by a commercial mill, using corn, soybeans, feather meal, etc - ain't exactly new. In fact, it's old, real old. The only new fish food that has caused me to even raise an eyebrow over the past few years is Northfin, and mostly because they pretty much copied the food that I've been using for the past 10+ years. Even though the owner thinks that I have a hate on for him (which I do not) my hat goes off to him for NOT using corn, soybeans, rice, feathers, etc, like the rest of the more recent new players. Kudos to them for taking the higher road, and putting their money where their mouth is. Most of the new players seem quite happy marketing feed mill grade food, as premium tropical fish food.


Caveat emptor

 

[JRT8783]

Why does it seem like certain people only show up in discussions about fish food, and then those discussions always end up about NLS... Can we get notifications sent to our phones if keywords are used? Like "food" or "NLS"??? Even though NLS is widely known, especially on MFK, as being the best pellet food on the market, it seems as though the point has to be made over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and............ Just let it go, NLS will be ok.

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[Endo]

^ Uh, no

About that, the only way that one cuts out the middle man is to build (or buy) their own manufacturing facility, and make their own food. Any idea how many known commercial tropical fish food companies do that in the USA? I can count them on one hand, with a couple of fingers left over. NLS, Omega, HBH, and ?

The rest all rely on a commercial feed mill, such as Zeigler, Skretting, etc to make their food. Of course then you also have to rely on them for supplying the raw ingredients for that food, and if you don't know what the hell you are doing then you also have to rely on their in-house people to formulate that food. Everything that one adds to the recipe eats into the bottom line, which is exactly why one sees ingredients such as corn, soybeans, rice, feathers, etc-etc in a LOT of the foods out there. Xtreme also has their food made by Zeigler, and again, there's rice, soybeans, and extra ground wheat, beyond the wheat flour that is used as a binding agent.


No one is going to join this discussion and refute what I say, because these are stone cold facts that cannot be disputed. Money talks & BS walks, which as a business man I understand as well as the next person, a company has to make money to survive, just don't attempt to tell me that these kinds of raw ingredients, and these kinds of fish foods, are even remotely close to the top contenders in the fish food industry. To do so only makes one look like they just fell off the turnip truck. lol



I have no issue with anyone bringing something new to the hobby, but bringing a commercial food that is developed by a commercial mill, using corn, soybeans, feather meal, etc - ain't exactly new. In fact, it's old, real old. The only new fish food that has caused me to even raise an eyebrow over the past few years is Northfin, and mostly because they pretty much copied the food that I've been using for the past 10+ years. Even though the owner thinks that I have a hate on for him (which I do not) my hat goes off to him for NOT using corn, soybeans, rice, feathers, etc, like the rest of the more recent new players. Kudos to them for taking the higher road, and putting their money where their mouth is. Most of the new players seem quite happy marketing feed mill grade food, as premium tropical fish food.


Caveat emptor

Well said
/Endthread



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