Why haven't Coldwater species have been popularized yet?

[jjohnwm]

Wow that's sad.

Yes and no. While many Canadian jurisdictions do tend to go a little overboard when it comes to that type of legislation, the fact is that there needs to be some control of over-utilization of native species. And if you are going to legislate something, there needs to be some "teeth" in the penalty to actually make the law effective. Too many people tend to look upon a small fine as merely a licence fee, allowing them to do whatever it is that the law is intended to prevent.

 

[Stratoquarius]

Yes and no. While many Canadian jurisdictions do tend to go a little overboard when it comes to that type of legislation, the fact is that there needs to be some control of over-utilization of native species. And if you are going to legislate something, there needs to be some "teeth" in the penalty to actually make the law effective. Too many people tend to look upon a small fine as merely a licence fee, allowing them to do whatever it is that the law is intended to prevent.

There is actually a way around it here, whereby you can apply for a research license but I hear its not necessarily an easy process either.
I've seen rainbow shiners here before but we are talking $20+ a fish

 

[jjohnwm]

I'm not at all certain that I agree with finding a way of "getting around" this particular type of legislation; I don't think that it should be easy. Unlike many Canadian laws, regs like this appear to be based upon a real desire to protect the environment, unlike so many other rules that are strictly politically motivated.

I hear American citizens bellyaching about Channa all the time; and perhaps the law banning all of them goes a bit too far, but they are erring on the side of caution. If they tried to outlaw only certain species, then Fish Cops would need to be educated and trained to differentiate all the individual species; probably not a realistic goal. Outlawing them all probably seems like a "better safe than sorry" kind of deal. So, if a research scientist needs to maintain a group of them, he/she likely can get the required paperwork...but a kid with a 20-gallon aquarium and a very short attention span should not be able to slip through the paperwork loopholes and obtain these fish, no matter how "cool" they may be.

 

[Umbra]

Not sure about the rest of Canada but in Ontario you can buy aquacultured fish from registered aquaculture facilities to keep in artificial waters and aquariums. Below is the relevant regulation that prohibits the purchase/sale of native fish without a license:

O. Reg. 664/98: FISH LICENSING
under Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997, S.O. 1997, c. 41

Buying or selling fish
51 (1) A person shall not buy or sell fish that belong to a species that exists in Ontario waters or fish prescribed by the regulations, except under the authority of a licence and in accordance with the regulations.

Interpretation
(2) For the purposes of subsection (1), fish cultured in Ontario shall be deemed to belong to a species that exists in Ontario waters.

And here are the amendments that allows you to purchase and transport aquacultured fish without a license:

Buying or Selling Fish
32. (1) A person who buys fish directly from the holder of an aquaculture licence, commercial fishing licence, commercial bait licence or document described in subsection (2) or (3) is exempt from the requirement in subsection 51 (1) of the Act to have a licence to buy fish. O. Reg. 196/00, s. 4 (2); O. Reg. 261/05, s. 7 (1).


Transportation of Fish
29. (1) For the purposes of paragraph 3 (1) (b) of the Ontario Fishery Regulations, each of the following documents shall be deemed to be a licence to transport live fish if the fish have been cultured, caught, bought or sold under the authority of the document:

1. An aquaculture licence.

2. A commercial fishing licence.

3. A document deemed to be a licence to sell fish under section 32.

4. A receipt, invoice or bill of lading issued by the holder of a licence referred to in paragraph 1 or 3.

************************

The best time to get is when they replenish genetic stock through wild fish. This generally happens more often with salmonids than others as out gov't stocks our rivers and lakes. Make sure you hold onto the receipts for verification purposes for 3 years.

Additional reading re Ontario aquaculture laws:

Aquaculture issuing policy (FisPp.9.2.1)

The policy governing how aquaculture licences, renewals, transfers, amendments, refusals and cancellations are issued. This policy’s goal is to minimize the risk of ecological damage from aquaculture activities.

www.ontario.ca

Licences to stock fish policy (FisPp.9.3.1)

This policy/procedure identifies the requirements for stocking fish. It also identifies the procedure to issue a Licence to Stock Fish in Ontario Waters.

www.ontario.ca

Law Document English View

Welcome to the new e-Laws. It’s now easier than ever to find Ontario laws. We welcome your feedback.

www.ontario.ca

A fishing license allows you to possess and transport up to 120 "baitfish" as well, another workaround for some species. Our province is divided into multiple BMZs (bait management zones) and regulations exist for transport of baitfish between different BMZs - if you buy baitfish from outside your home BMZ (where your primary residence is located) you are required to carry a receipt of the purchase and they must be disposed of within 2 weeks, meaning if you want to be by the book legally you must purchase/harvest baitfish from within your home BMZ. Do note that a fishing license does not allow you to "culture" baitfish (produce in any capacity for a commercial or stocking operation).

More Ontarians should look into keeping aquacultured natives, some of the coolest fish ever. Upside is that aquacultured trout seem to have better temperature tolerances than wilds - here is one of my 3 browns, temp hovers between 68 and 72 depending on season and they're doing great. The aquaculture biologist that runs the facility I got these from said that his brook trout have no problems with temps in this range as long as oxygenation is good:

 

[duanes]

I realize this is an ancient thread, but one of the reasons tropical fish became popular (when they. did) is that aquarists could keep many of these "tropicals" at room temp year round, whereas cold water fish need cool downs, that were more difficult to maintain than constant warm temps.
And for some cold water species simply maintaining the lower temps, and high dissolved oxygen they need is still difficult
Although today we can do this with chillers as far as enegy cost goes, they may be at least as expensive as running heaters.
Here in Panama many serious aquarists use chillers when trying to keep, koi, arowana and other moderate temperature species.

 

[jjohnwm]

Not sure about the rest of Canada but in Ontario you can buy aquacultured fish from registered aquaculture facilities to keep in artificial waters and aquariums. Below is the relevant regulation that prohibits the purchase/sale of native fish without a license:

O. Reg. 664/98: FISH LICENSING
under Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997, S.O. 1997, c. 41

Buying or selling fish
51 (1) A person shall not buy or sell fish that belong to a species that exists in Ontario waters or fish prescribed by the regulations, except under the authority of a licence and in accordance with the regulations.

Interpretation
(2) For the purposes of subsection (1), fish cultured in Ontario shall be deemed to belong to a species that exists in Ontario waters.

And here are the amendments that allows you to purchase and transport aquacultured fish without a license:

Buying or Selling Fish
32. (1) A person who buys fish directly from the holder of an aquaculture licence, commercial fishing licence, commercial bait licence or document described in subsection (2) or (3) is exempt from the requirement in subsection 51 (1) of the Act to have a licence to buy fish. O. Reg. 196/00, s. 4 (2); O. Reg. 261/05, s. 7 (1).


Transportation of Fish
29. (1) For the purposes of paragraph 3 (1) (b) of the Ontario Fishery Regulations, each of the following documents shall be deemed to be a licence to transport live fish if the fish have been cultured, caught, bought or sold under the authority of the document:

1. An aquaculture licence.

2. A commercial fishing licence.

3. A document deemed to be a licence to sell fish under section 32.

4. A receipt, invoice or bill of lading issued by the holder of a licence referred to in paragraph 1 or 3.

************************

The best time to get is when they replenish genetic stock through wild fish. This generally happens more often with salmonids than others as out gov't stocks our rivers and lakes. Make sure you hold onto the receipts for verification purposes for 3 years.

Additional reading re Ontario aquaculture laws:

Aquaculture issuing policy (FisPp.9.2.1)

The policy governing how aquaculture licences, renewals, transfers, amendments, refusals and cancellations are issued. This policy’s goal is to minimize the risk of ecological damage from aquaculture activities.

www.ontario.ca

Licences to stock fish policy (FisPp.9.3.1)

This policy/procedure identifies the requirements for stocking fish. It also identifies the procedure to issue a Licence to Stock Fish in Ontario Waters.

www.ontario.ca

Law Document English View

Welcome to the new e-Laws. It’s now easier than ever to find Ontario laws. We welcome your feedback.

www.ontario.ca

A fishing license allows you to possess and transport up to 120 "baitfish" as well, another workaround for some species. Our province is divided into multiple BMZs (bait management zones) and regulations exist for transport of baitfish between different BMZs - if you buy baitfish from outside your home BMZ (where your primary residence is located) you are required to carry a receipt of the purchase and they must be disposed of within 2 weeks, meaning if you want to be by the book legally you must purchase/harvest baitfish from within your home BMZ. Do note that a fishing license does not allow you to "culture" baitfish (produce in any capacity for a commercial or stocking operation).

More Ontarians should look into keeping aquacultured natives, some of the coolest fish ever. Upside is that aquacultured trout seem to have better temperature tolerances than wilds - here is one of my 3 browns, temp hovers between 68 and 72 depending on season and they're doing great. The aquaculture biologist that runs the facility I got these from said that his brook trout have no problems with temps in this range as long as oxygenation is good:

View attachment 1506968

Thanks for this great post; a terrific compilation of regulations covering natives. Many years ago, when I lived in Ontario, I kept natives almost exclusively for about a decade; back then, I collected them myself, and my concerns over the legality began and ended with having a fishing licence. The main source of information at my disposal was the local game warden, and each of those fellows often had his own interpretation of the rulebook.

Coincidentally, I was told just today by the owner of my favourite LFS that gar of all species are illegal to possess in Manitoba. This was disappointing; I was leaning more and more towards getting one or two, so hearing this quashed that idea quickly. And...as much as I feel that my province tends to be a bit too overcautious in its approach to protecting its natural fauna...I can respect the desire to do so and will refrain from trying to find a work-around or loophole just to keep a fish.

 

[Moontanman]

I keep NA natives year round with no cool down, they do fine. A slight cool down helps if you are trying to breed them but just to keep them requires no cool down. Unless you are trying to keep natives with something like discuss moderate temps in the mid 70's is fine for nearly all fish. Obligate cold water fish or obligate warm water fish are often exceptions to that rule of mid 70's but few fish are in those categories.

 

[Nabbig2]

Great pics!
I would love to keep coldwater native species but its illegal to keep any wildlife in Alberta.
Pretty heavy fines if you are found to be collecting and or maintaining said species.

For me the whole idea of being able to go out and collect from one ecosystem and recreate it in my home would be a dream.
but as far as I know most canadian provinces are very tough on this.

That's indeed unfortunate. Many fascist governments criminalize harmless behavior like this. If you have a license and legally catch the fish, it's shouldn't be the government's business what you do with the fish after-that fish is yours.

Yes and no. While many Canadian jurisdictions do tend to go a little overboard when it comes to that type of legislation, the fact is that there needs to be some control of over-utilization of native species. And if you are going to legislate something, there needs to be some "teeth" in the penalty to actually make the law effective. Too many people tend to look upon a small fine as merely a licence fee, allowing them to do whatever it is that the law is intended to prevent.

"Teeth" to make criminals out of someone enjoying the outdoors, catching a fish and keeping in his/her fish tank. That's not harming or hurting anyone. If you want to make it illegal to release or overharvest that's one thing, but these laws are overly draconian. Stop treating fish keepers like criminals and supporting ultra authoritarian borderline fascist laws. What someone keeps in their fish tank is nobody's business but their own. For all the murdering, robbing, property destruction, and massive pollution that occurs you want to go after some kid keeping fish in a tank.

Our hobby began with keeping native fish. You can keep plenty of native fish and have a good time without actually harming the environment.

 

[jjohnwm]

"Teeth" to make criminals out of someone enjoying the outdoors, catching a fish and keeping in his/her fish tank. That's not harming or hurting anyone. If you want to make it illegal to release or overharvest that's one thing, but these laws are overly draconian. Stop treating fish keepers like criminals and supporting ultra authoritarian borderline fascist laws. What someone keeps in their fish tank is nobody's business but their own. For all the murdering, robbing, property destruction, and massive pollution that occurs you want to go after some kid keeping fish in a tank.

Woah, woah, take a breath there, Mr.Freedom. Perhaps the perspective from the paradise of California is a bit different from mine here in the Great White North, but...I don't want to "go after" anyone, I am not treating anyone like criminals and I don't support fascism, thank you very much.

I'm trying not to laugh at the idea that I am being painted as someone who supports over-regulation, excessive legislation and government interference; anyone who knows me is aware of how ridiculous that suggestion is. What I meant to say...and, in fact, what I actually wrote...is that if one is attempting to protect native species, then there is no point in passing legislation that is not a deterrent to the type of activity that is being discouraged. Making something illegal...and then making the penalty so trivial that it is looked upon as an inconvenience rather than an actual deterrent...is worse than doing nothing. It simply adds to the landslide of silly and useless laws and regulations with which we are saddled, making people jaded and unconcerned with breaking the law by making it difficult or impossible to get through life without breaking the law.

I don't like the heavy-handed approach that results in the "everything is illegal!" blanket legislation...but I do recognize, as you seem to as well, that there needs to be some control over utilization of nature. Sure, it would be great if the law were laid out in great detail, allowing harmless activity while preventing it from developing into over-exploitation, perhaps detailing particular species of concern that require special consideration. But, as you point out, there are more pressing concerns that are and should be the focus of law-makers; if I read that Parliament is wasting time debating which species of minnow can or cannot be kept in aquariums and how many one can possess and how this will be monitored and enforced...I for one will be one pissed-off Canuck. If they go a bit overboard and err on the side of over-caution...well, I don't love the idea but at least I can understand it.

So, the next time you accuse someone of "supporting ultra authoritarian borderline fascist laws"...maybe try reading what they wrote before throwing inflammatory insults around. Cheers!