Why you should NEVER release any fish

[TheBloodyIrish]

My point, you will still wind up with unwanted animals in kids’ possession. What then?

I agree. When we were growing up, we had a three animals rule in the house, no more than that. We were not allowed to neglect or put them down, unless they were in great pain.

Most zoos and aquariums don't even accept would-be abandoned animals either. Not every rescue place is willing to take them in, or have the room to accomdate them. The ASPCA will put them down after a week or two if no one take them up.

 

[vexter]

Read the entire article because if you take what I say out of context; you are an idiot.
You provide some very valid points as to why not to introduce 'feral' animals into another location. And to an extent you're right. Look at the Cane toad problem in Australia, it is causing huge economic backlash.
However stocking lakes? come on. I agree fully with Mjmc. And Ewrum; I doubt you can convince a child to kill a turtle he's cared for for the past year.
I'm not saying feral animals is a good idea. However I do not believe the garbage you are talking about with genetic diversity and stocking fish. Firstly, Darwin's theory states that for evolution to take place there must be a survival of the fittest take place. Secondly,Where I live in Canada used to be the bottom of a Mediterranean ocean. Evolution and ecological change go hand in hand. Thirdly, in some cases feral animals are far more profitable to the human welfare in the location.
Survival of the fittest, defined by Charles Darwin is an act where only the strongest of a species are able to procreate. If you take a turtle from pond A and put in an aquarium for a time either it will die from the diseases you speak of, develop an immunity to them, or lastly, you have listed VHS (Viral haemorrhagic septicaemia) has for the most part applied to farming rainbow trout. [http://www.frs-scotland.gov.uk/FRS.Web/Delivery/display_standalone.aspx?contentid=739]
Hypothetically if you introduce that turtle to pond B located roughly in the same geographical area the other turtles will be faced with the same problem. Get through it or die.
Ecological change is splashed everywhere again and again [global warming]. Regardless the speed at which this event takes place you cannot deny it takes place. For example; See how the 7 continents used to be one. Central Canada used to be the location of a Mediterranean sea. Or the North Pacific land bridge. The worlds climate, environment is changing at a very fast pace. Furthermore this climate change is overshadows the possible lose of species caused by a young child reintroducing a native animal into another near-by pond.
Finally economic benefits to stocking certain locations with fish outweigh the possible loss of genetic diversity. Fish accounts for such a huge amount of the world's food. Even with the advancements fishing levels are considerably less then in the past. [http://dieoff.org/page57.htm] Paint a picture of your glorious American wild west without horses. After all they were introduced into America and when the settlers didn't need them they were set free. Yet they didn't think the impact the horses could have on grass with their larger hooves, what they would eat, possibly irradiating various plants, leading to the irradiation of natural wild life.
I do not support the extinction of a species, but I understand new species are being discovered every day. Only now humans are being able to keep large scale accurate records of our impact on the animal kingdom. Humans have only been on this planet for what 200 million years? Maybe to the earth we are the anomaly and will be gone, our stay the equivalent in the blink of an eye. Don't try and take the joy and research that hands on experience away from kids. Having a pet turtle for even a week provides more information then books will, especially, to a child.

 

[Polypterus]

you have listed VHS (Viral haemorrhagic septicaemia) has for the most part applied to farming rainbow trout.

Just a factual correction:
This virus is now infecting wild fish in the Great lakes on the atlantic coast and on the west coast. There have been several large scale mortalities of fish species in the past few years from VHS. This virus is no longer just an issue of european trout farms.

 

[vexter]

Care to source with some numbers? Or is this just your own personal meandering?

 

[teleost]

Read the entire article because if you take what I say out of context; you are an idiot.
You provide some very valid points as to why not to introduce 'feral' animals into another location. And to an extent you're right. Look at the Cane toad problem in Australia, it is causing huge economic backlash.
However stocking lakes? come on. I agree fully with Mjmc. And Ewrum; I doubt you can convince a child to kill a turtle he's cared for for the past year.
I'm not saying feral animals is a good idea. However I do not believe the garbage you are talking about with genetic diversity and stocking fish. Firstly, Darwin's theory states that for evolution to take place there must be a survival of the fittest take place. Secondly,Where I live in Canada used to be the bottom of a Mediterranean ocean. Evolution and ecological change go hand in hand. Thirdly, in some cases feral animals are far more profitable to the human welfare in the location.
Survival of the fittest, defined by Charles Darwin is an act where only the strongest of a species are able to procreate. If you take a turtle from pond A and put in an aquarium for a time either it will die from the diseases you speak of, develop an immunity to them, or lastly, you have listed VHS (Viral haemorrhagic septicaemia) has for the most part applied to farming rainbow trout. [http://www.frs-scotland.gov.uk/FRS.Web/Delivery/display_standalone.aspx?contentid=739]
Hypothetically if you introduce that turtle to pond B located roughly in the same geographical area the other turtles will be faced with the same problem. Get through it or die.
Ecological change is splashed everywhere again and again [global warming]. Regardless the speed at which this event takes place you cannot deny it takes place. For example; See how the 7 continents used to be one. Central Canada used to be the location of a Mediterranean sea. Or the North Pacific land bridge. The worlds climate, environment is changing at a very fast pace. Furthermore this climate change is overshadows the possible lose of species caused by a young child reintroducing a native animal into another near-by pond.
Finally economic benefits to stocking certain locations with fish outweigh the possible loss of genetic diversity. Fish accounts for such a huge amount of the world's food. Even with the advancements fishing levels are considerably less then in the past. [http://dieoff.org/page57.htm] Paint a picture of your glorious American wild west without horses. After all they were introduced into America and when the settlers didn't need them they were set free. Yet they didn't think the impact the horses could have on grass with their larger hooves, what they would eat, possibly irradiating various plants, leading to the irradiation of natural wild life.
I do not support the extinction of a species, but I understand new species are being discovered every day. Only now humans are being able to keep large scale accurate records of our impact on the animal kingdom. Humans have only been on this planet for what 200 million years? Maybe to the earth we are the anomaly and will be gone, our stay the equivalent in the blink of an eye. Don't try and take the joy and research that hands on experience away from kids. Having a pet turtle for even a week provides more information then books will, especially, to a child.

Vexter you seem to have a problem relating time and distance. Comparing mans ability to jump streams to the evolutionary process is shallow. To then just say the fishes should duke it out after man dumps them there is disturbing. You say you don't support the extinction of species yet you have no problem diluting genetic diversity. I was in a stream over the weekend where a particular darter has odd characteristics that darters of the same species just two streams over don't share. Under your opinion we could just mix the two fishes and they could duke it out and the best fish survives. WTF is up with your guerilla eclology? No matter how you slice it it's against the law to release animals into the wild as well as remove it from one waterway into another...... and it's irresponsible. Just because the state exempts itself from the law doesn't mean citizens should take it upon themselves to screw with genetic diversity. It's a shame parents don't have the common sense to teach their children good manners both in public and for their homeland.

 

[Polypterus]

Care to source with some numbers? Or is this just your own personal meandering?

Are you incapable of looking up Viral hemorrhagic septicemia on google ??
I suggest trying it because you would have to be living in a hole to not know about this. I BTW live in the area infected so I do very well know the stink of hundreds of VHS killed fish....

Here are a few selected quotes for you that you could easily find:

Has VHS Isolate IVb caused mortalities in the Great Lakes? In the eastern part of the Great Lakes Basin, a large scale mortality of freshwater drum occurred in 2005 in the Bay of Quinte, Lake Ontario in Ontario. In the spring of 2006, large fish mortalities were observed in Lake St. Clair (Great Lakes muskellunge and yellow perch), St. Clair River (gizzard shad), Detroit River (Great Lakes muskellunge and gizzard shad), Lake Erie (west basin -freshwater drum and whitebass, and central basin-yellow perch), Lake Ontario (round goby) and St. Lawrence River (Great Lakes muskellunge). A Lake Huron - Thunder Bay (lake whitefish and walleye) fish kill in the fall of 2006 was likely related to VHSv.

www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/Viral-Hemorrhagic-Septicemia-Fact-Sheet-11-9-2006_178081_7.pdf

What is the history of VHS?
VHS was first discovered in the mid 20th Century in Europe where it was originally a significant and costly disease of cultured rainbow trout. Since its initial discovery in Europe, four strains of the VHS virus have been identified, including both freshwater and marine strains. In 1988, VHS was reported in spawning salmon in the Pacific Northwest and was determined to be a new strain of the virus (Type IV) that appears to be a North American strain. It is widespread in the Pacific herring and Pacific cod populations in the Pacific Northwest and has also been found in Atlantic herring and Greenland halibut in the Atlantic Ocean.

In 2005, a very large die-off of freshwater drum in Lake Ontario and a muskellunge kill in Lake St. Clair were linked to VHS, representing the first documentation of the disease in freshwater in the western hemisphere. A subsequent test of an archived muskellunge collected from Lake St. Clair in 2003 tested positive for the virus, indicating that the virus was present, but undetected in the Great Lakes system for at least two years. The drum and muskellunge virus isolates were determined to be different than those from infected fish from other regions and were categorized as a unique strain of the virus (Type IVb).

In 2006, additional fish kills in Lake Huron, Lake Erie, Lake Ontario, the St. Lawrence River and Conesus Lake were linked to VHS. Species involved in fish kills linked to VHS included muskellunge, smallmouth bass, northern pike, freshwater drum, lake whitefish, gizzard shad, yellow perch, black crappie, bluegill, rock bass, white bass, redhorse sucker, round goby, burbot and walleye. Other freshwater fish species that have tested positive for VHS are chinook salmon, bluntnose minnows and emerald shiners.

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/fish/vhsv.html

 

[vexter]

I was in a stream over the weekend where a particular darter has odd characteristics that darters of the same species just two streams over don't share. Under your opinion we could just mix the two fishes and they could duke it out and the best fish survives. WTF is up with your guerilla eclology? ...remove it from one waterway into another...... and it's irresponsible.

Actually If you were consummate with your reading ability enough to notice I was referring to the act of government stocking lakes. That sometimes it is necessary because people live in places where they wouldn't normally live. See my statements on economics. Secondly fish duke it out, You make it sound like the 2 fish are putting on the gloves boxing. Maybe if this was an aquarium but when your looking at such a large location as lakes and rivers its killing of another species by taking their food source. [see virtually every story on feral animals].
Furthermore I'll reiterate the points I argued. 1) Stocking lakes with fish necessary evil. I'm not 100% sure about your geographical location but I know various regions that are extremely dependent on fish for food. But after all my version of

guerrilla ecology

is putting the lives of people before the genetic diversity of fish.
2) Letting kids be kids. I'm not talking about letting your child get an oscar and releasing it into Florida causing huge ecological backlash. I'm referring to a kid catching a sunfish in the creek down by his house and taking it home and caring for it and possibly releasing it back. I believe you would be the fan of kill it rather then release it back? I mean, yes there is ecological problems but I feel that with the environmental awareness that this provides outweighs the possible ecological problems.

 

[TheBloodyIrish]

What region is dependent on their fish? Most of those areas have perfectly acceptable game fish that can be bred quite easily, but the problem is that the hatcheries and fisheries opt for the cheap methods.

Up in Hay River near the Great Slave Lake, there is a fishery that commerically sell northern pikes, arctic graylings, lake trouts and whitefish. All those are native to the lake. In fact some are perfectly acceptable to comerically sell, yet wildlife management still decide to replace the game fish stock with non-native Rainbow and Brown trouts.

 

[ewurm]

How do you propose to educate these ignorant children? The only way I can see is to catch them while they are in kindergarten. Where will we get enough DNR employees to conduct these speaking arrangements?

A consequence of reaching them: children growing up do not develop an appreciation for wildlife. If you have a wildlife officer lecture each student to never take an animal from the wild unless he or she can keep it for life, kids will likely say oh yeah, no problem. Snapping turtles can live over fifty years! What 6 or seven year old is prepared for that kind of commitment? I know as a kid my mom shouldered most of the caring responsibilities for our pets. Whether it was a dog or a snake, she made sure it was cared for. She was the one buying the food, ensuring its cage was cleaned (by telling me to do it). I (and most kids) got bored quickly. The puppy grows into a dog and the novelty wears off. Snakes and tarantulas become static. The animals I purchased would be traded at reptile shows after learning much about them. Wild caught animals would be released. Geez, I’ve rambled. My point, you will still wind up with unwanted animals in kids’ possession. What then?

I said "dad, can I keep the Sunfish in a bucket in the back yard? Can I keep the Snapping turtle in a bucket in the back yard? Can I keep the Mammoth in the tool shed in the back yard? "

He told me no. The lesson that should be learned is that pets are not decorations, they are not possessions, they are not people that can take care of themselves. When you buy a pet, you are responsible for it for it's ENTIRE life. If you can't handle it, then don't get a pet.

 

[sandtiger]

Furthermore I'll reiterate the points I argued. 1) Stocking lakes with fish necessary evil. I'm not 100% sure about your geographical location but I know various regions that are extremely dependent on fish for food. But after all my version of is putting the lives of people before the genetic diversity of fish.

The lives of people before fish? That's a joke. I highly doubt the people of NY need brown and rainbow trout in order to survive. If trout were critical to their survival however there are perfectly good lake and brook trout to be eaten. Likewise, I doubt the people of California needed largemouth bass. I want to know what region you're speaking of that NEED Fish&Game to stock their lake in order for them to survive.

2) Letting kids be kids. I'm not talking about letting your child get an oscar and releasing it into Florida causing huge ecological backlash. I'm referring to a kid catching a sunfish in the creek down by his house and taking it home and caring for it and possibly releasing it back. I believe you would be the fan of kill it rather then release it back? I mean, yes there is ecological problems but I feel that with the environmental awareness that this provides outweighs the possible ecological problems.[/QUOTE]

And what if that kid, who has no clue about the nitrogen cycle or how to properly care for the sunfish allows it to contract a disease and decides to release it? Seriously, animals aren't toys. I was taught this as a child, wild animals were left in the wild. If they came indoors they stayed there. It's easy to teach children and helps them become responsable stewards of the environment and responsable pet owners who will hopfully research snapping turtles BEFORE bringing one home, something everyone should do with every animal they decide to keep. Animals aren't disposable and if my child were to bring one home he would be responsable for that animal for life. If they didn't like it they would learn damn quickly not to bring anything else home.

All of this is beyond the point, the point being that It's ILLEGAL to release animals into the wild.