You should try feeding Wardleys pond food

[Jacunaba]

Regardless of what its made of my fish love it
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Say what? Why even feed fish pellets then?
Low end dog food probably has a similar ingredient list lol



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[JonY3k]

If you are feeding something really big can you feed small dog high quality dog food? They make many types.

 

[RD.]

The short & simple answer is no, it's not a good idea to feed foods designed for dogs, to fish.

Here's a comment I made in the past on this subject ................



There is now over 100 years of research that has taken place in the aquaculture circles involving both commercial cold water, and warm water ornamental species of fish. While the species specific data may be missing for most of the ornamental species kept in the hobby, in most cases one can extrapolate the data from what is available regarding warm water carnivores in general, warm water omnivores in general, and warm water herbivores in general, and in general apply that science to all species of warm water fin fish that fall under each designation. One can also study what nutrients the fish consume in the wild, and what levels, and also use that data to formulate a general feed designed for most ornamental species. The basic requirements are all very similar, for the most part the nutrient levels are the only thing that changes, as in % of protein, fat, carbs, fiber, etc.


Dog food is formulated for dogs.


Tropical fish are not hard wired to consume large quantities of animal fat or protein derived from beef, chicken, and god only knows what other animal sources some manufacturers may use. Dogs in general have certain dietary requirements, including various levels of vitamins & minerals, which can even vary due to age (puppy/adult), the size of the breed (Chihuahua vs Great Dane), and/or working dog vs lap dog, and these are NOT the same basic requirements required by most species of fish.

This is not to say that one cannot feed dog food to their fish, or that doing so is going to cause immediate death in their fish, in general it won't, but that doesn't mean that this is a good practice that is in any way based on any type of sound science or research, because it isn't.

If you want to feed a lower cost food to your fish there are plenty of commercial farm feeds that are designed for fish, and that are far less costly than some of the premium brands of food on the market. There is simply no need for anyone to be feeding dog food to their fish. It makes absolutely no sense from an economic view point, or nutrient wise.

It's just a dumb idea, period.



More info in this following past discussion regarding marine species.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...aste-of-The-Wild-Salmon-Dog-food-as-fish-food




Again, If you want to feed a lower cost food to your fish there are plenty of commercial farm feeds that are designed for fish, and that are far less costly than some of the premium brands of food on the market. IMHO the pond food being discussed in this thread is certainly NOT something that I would consider feeding to a predatory species, in fact, I wouldn't feed it to anything. There are much higher quality bulk foods out there offered by various commercial feed mills.

 

[raideranch]

If anyone has some evidence based data showing anything listed in the ingredients to be harmful to predatory fish when consumed in moderation please share, thx

 

[mudbuttjones]

I considered this stuff when I kept north American natives. $12 seemed too cheap for 5lbs. Used hikari gold medium instead. $$$

When I was a kid I was raised in a tetra household. Dad didn't buy wardley. Old habits die hard.


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[that_fish_Guy]

If anyone has some evidence based data showing anything listed in the ingredients to be harmful to predatory fish when consumed in moderation please share, thx

Think of it as putting gas in a diesel engine. If you put in gas it screws up the engine right? Which is similar to how Predatory fish require seperate needs, their body's and organs are meant to process food a different way. Which is the same as a diesel engine it's meant to process a different kind of fuel than gas in a different kind of way. I don't know a better way to explain that concept to you. The organs and body of a predatory fish are built differently and they are designed to eat a certain diet. They have their seperate dietary needs than a herbivore/cold water ((((im assuming Coldwater because I think Wardley is targeting koi with this product)))) fish and they process foods differently. So it justifies and makes perfect sense that feeding a Coldwater herbivore diet to a tropical predatory fish is probably not a really good idea. I can understand wanting to save money i save all the time in constructive ways. But when it comes to not providing the needs for a pet ,fish, cat ,dog or whatever that are alt least required for them to live properly and be healthy and have a well rounded diet etc then There is no reason for you to own the fish in the first place. Enough said that's my standpoint I can argue till I'm blue in the face but I wont. Good luck op hope your fish are fine long term with this "diet"

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[raideranch]

Think of it as putting gas in a diesel engine. If you put in gas it screws up the engine right? Which is similar to how Predatory fish require seperate needs, their body's and organs are meant to process food a different way. Which is the same as a diesel engine it's meant to process a different kind of fuel than gas in a different kind of way. I don't know a better way to explain that concept to you. The organs and body of a predatory fish are built differently and they are designed to eat a certain diet. They have their seperate dietary needs than a herbivore/cold water ((((im assuming Coldwater because I think Wardley is targeting koi with this product)))) fish and they process foods differently. So it justifies and makes perfect sense that feeding a Coldwater herbivore diet to a tropical predatory fish is probably not a really good idea. I can understand wanting to save money i save all the time in constructive ways. But when it comes to not providing the needs for a pet ,fish, cat ,dog or whatever that are alt least required for them to live properly and be healthy and have a well rounded diet etc then There is no reason for you to own the fish in the first place. Enough said that's my standpoint I can argue till I'm blue in the face but I wont. Good luck op hope your fish are fine long term with this "diet"

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I love that analogy, Thanks. I have a decent understanding of this from my experience, M.D., Plant Biotechnology major, Chemistry minor, Biology minor, etc. but I've never seen data specific to fish. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, its just easy to over think.

 

[RD.]

Soybean Meal, Ground Corn, Fish Meal, Wheat Middlings, Corn Gluten Meal, Calcium Carbonate, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal

Out of the top 7 ingredients listed by dry weight (in accordance with AFCO) - only 1 ingredient is based on a protein source that a predatory fish such as cichla would consume in the wild.


The main issue with that pond feed is the massive amount of terrestrial based carbs/starch in that diet. Predatory species are not capable of assimilating large amounts of carbohydrates efficiently due to the fact that unlike fish such as Koi, most predatory species do not produce the enzymes required (amylase) in any significant quantity (if at all) to break those carbs down.

Science has proven that at least with most species of fish studied to date, terrestrial based plant matter can potentially cause health issues, especially if fed in a raw unprocessed state, due to the anti-nutritional matter found in the vast majority of terrestrial based plants. Not a major problem if one is feeding limited quantities, but can cause some serious problems in at least some species of fish when fed at higher levels on a regular basis.

The presence of endogenous anti-nutritional factors within plant feedstuffs is believed to be the largest single factor limiting their use within compounded animal and fish feeds at high dietary levels. Table 11 summarizes the major groups of anti-nutritional factors present in plant feedstuffs with more specific examples given in Table 12. Although these factors vary in their individual toxicity to fish, a large proportion of them can be destroyed or inactivated by heat treatment processes (Tacon & Jackson, 1985).

Unfortunately toxicological studies have not been performed on the majority of these anti-nutritional factors; on a general basis however their presence in untreated foodstuffs normally results in anorexia, reduced growth and poor feed efficiency when used at high dietary concentrations. For review see NRC (1983), Hendricks & Bailey (1989) and Lovell (1989).

http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/t0700e/T0700E06.htm


Soybeans contain saponins which at higher levels have proven to cause damage a fishes intestinal cells. Peas contain phytic acid, tannins, and trypsin inhibitors, which again are not something that fish benefit from and can potentially cause negative health issues when fed in excess. Check out the list in the link above & be informed, not all plant matter is going to offer a nutrient boost for fish. If one is wanting to increase the amount of plant matter in their fishes diet, my advice has always been to offer fish aquatic based plant matter.


So why feed a food to your fish that it cannot properly assimilate & utilize, and over time may cause negative health issues?


In nature, cichla (peacock bass) consume various species of fish as their main staple, not corn, not soybeans, not wheat, and not alfalfa meal. While a low inclusion rate of those ingredients probably wouldn't be a huge issue, I believe that at the rate they are found in this pond food over time one would experience negative health issues in most carnivorous species of fish.



The fact that a fish enjoys eating something, doesn't necessarily mean that it's good for them.

 

[OTp1144]

Are we all forgetting their food was recalled for salmonella? Twice.

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[RD.]

In all fairness lots of products can go through voluntary recalls, even forced recalls, I wouldn't let that be the determining factor on whether I used a product, or not.


In this case it should now be pretty obvious as to why this food shouldn't be fed to a piscivore such as cichla.