Official 2011-2012 NFL Thread

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you'd be dumber then a door knob not to draft him and see what he has to offer after sitting behind peyton for a few years.

Or, we could trade down in the first round, acquire additional draft picks that would allow us to select multiple upgrades for our defense, OL and WR positions out of the very talented overall draft class for next year. We could either draft Luck #1 and see what he can do 3-4 years down the line after Manning retires, or we could acquire even one additional draft pick in this years first round (not at all impossible with cleveland having 2 first rounders) and get the NT we need in Alameda Ta'mu, the elite CB we need in either Dre Kirkpatrick or Morris Claiborne (the Polians do love their LSU Players lol) and immediately upgrade arguably our 2 weakest positions. Then select another UT in a later round so we can move Eric Foster to DE where he belongs and use the rest on any combination of WR, LB, OL. Now we're back to having more than a legitimate shot at winning now instead of in a few years. ;)

I'm also a regular poster on the colts.com forum and here is just part of my reasoning for not drafting Luck at #1:

I would personally without a doubt trade down and acquire extra picks.

1-Atlanta gave up an arm and a leg to draft up and get Julio Jones. Cleveland (who has 2 first rd picks this year) has shown they have no problem packaging picks and trading up ala Brady Quinn. With all of the hype Luck is getting, I think there's no question that a bigger deal could easily be made for him than the Atlanta deal last year. Acquiring extra draft picks would go a long way towards helping us shore up some areas of weakness in what is going to be a very strong draft class.

2-There are so many people posting on the forum about how much more success Manning could have had with a better defense and running game and I agree. I'm not saying we haven't been successful, that's absurd. However I do think if we had continued to maintain a running game like we had when Edge was here then our offense would have, imo, maintained a higher degree of explosiveness than what we've seen the past few years. Same can be said of our defense...how many more championships could we have won if we had a stronger defense? I do think our D is improving and we'll see even more improvement if they learn the right and wrong times to use the tampa 2. However, we still have strong needs at CB and DT and other less-critical areas where at the very least we need better depth. Also we don't need just any DT but rather a NT. Of all DT's that come out in the draft only a portion of them are capable of playing a true NT position so the ones who can play NT and at an elite level are generally off the board relatively quickly. Same can be said of CB. There is going to be a lot of talent at CB in the draft but we have to ask ourselves if we really want to keep taking chances with lower round guys to step into the starting lineup instead of pulling the trigger on a high-level prospect where the risk is much less. So yeah, by trading down and acquiring additional picks we can shore up these holes as well as bring in some additional depth at several other positions.

3-Some QB's you bring in to groom for a few years and some you bring in and put them right in the starting lineup. Luck appears to be one of those that you bring in and start right away ala Manning, Manning (eli), Bradford, Stafford, Flacco, Ryan etc. I recall reading somewhere (unfortunately don't have the link so believe me or don't) that Manning said he felt one of the things that helped him the most was starting right away. If he's as polished and NFL ready as people claim him to be then it would almost be a disservice to him to have him ride the bench for the next 3-4 years while Manning is still here. The QB's that you bring in to groom for the future are guys who there are question marks around. Whether it be with their leadership ability, throwing mechanics, them coming from a spread-type offense or any number of other potential question marks. You ride these guys on the bench behind a veteran so they can learn how to play the position better. From all that is said about Luck I don't get the impression he's one of those types of QB's. I have no problem with looking to bring someone in to compete with Painter in attempt to upgrade the backup spot but if that's what we're looking for then wait until the 3rd or 4th round.

4-So based on #3, the only real reason that would make sense to have Luck be "groomed" by Peyton is to give Luck opportunity to learn our offense and scheme. This makes little sense to me. Anyone who thinks there is another QB who will come in and be able to do the things Manning does is expecting way too much. I'm not going to say for certain that Luck or another QB could definitely not do it, but the fact that there's not another QB in the league today who has as much control of the offense as Manning does and that to go back through history, the closest and most recent example would be Jim Kelly of Buffalo..and that was late 80's/early 90's. When Manning goes...so does the amount of control the QB position has goes as well. When Manning goes we are going to have to make adjustments, make things less complicated from the QB perspective and the offensive coaches are going to have to be more involved in play calling and game planning etc. Not saying that they're not involved now, but with Manning they don't have to be as involved as they are going to have to be with any other QB. So why bring Luck in to learn a system he likely won't be running anyway?

5-Based on #4, we should spend every resource available to us to build a better team around Manning while he's still here. Not only does this seem to be the right thing to do for Peyton and to give him a chance to retire with more than one ring, but in waiting to address the QB situation we are building a much better team so that when the time does come and we have to find our next franchise QB, we have a much, MUCH better team built around him and that will make things a lot easier for him and should mean success much earlier.

6-Everyone compares the situation of Manning grooming Luck to Montana/Young and Favre/Rodgers. This goes back to my 3rd point...Young wasn't even drafted by San Fran, they acquired him from Tampa Bay where he was riding the bench. Rodgers was a late first round pick, not a top 5 pick. Neither of these teams went out and spent the #1 pick on the top QB prospect of the draft and then spent the next few years developing them. These were both guys that had areas of concern and aspects of their game that needed to be polished before they would be considered ready to be a full time starter in the NFL.

7-We can continue being a team that's built entirely around a GOAT caliber QB and base all of our success on him, meaning any time he has a subpar game...we lose. Or we can build a much better team first, one that can stand on its own 2 feet regardless of how the QB plays and then we go out and find our next franchise QB.
 
What if Luck ends up not being the best prospect this year?.....or if the colts are done after wk2,then they weren't good enough anyway,even with a healthy peyton!.....If luck is so good then what do you need peytons old ass for anyway?advice dont win games.If you trade up for luck then trade peyton for more picks,then you also save a ton of cap space to sign free agents.they might end up w/ a good team then.If luck is so good he should start right away,right?:ROFL:
 
y'all wrote too much for me to read tonight, i'll check it out tomorrow. spartacus, do you not know how to use the quote button? i'm tired of reading multiple posts with you quoting me back to back to back. just do it on one post.

personally i can't wait to see your redskins who haven't played squat yet come back down to earth. you're giddy after 2 weeks but shooting down people predicting the colt's fate after 2 weeks? please tell me what team right now looks like it'll end up with a worse record
 
I have more respect for Matt Ryan than I thought possible after that hit he took!That is one super tough dude!He looked like a pretzel combined into a yoga instructor!A rough game for qb's
so is Grossman better than Kolb?
Who woulda thought the Skins in first place after 2 weeks?Oh yea,me.

wins are a team stat so i would not say grossman is better because of his shiny 2-0 record vs kolb's 1-1 record.


So baltimore gets emotionally high to play pittsburge, destroys them......then overlooks tennesee who ALWAYS plays them tough?

how tough was pitt on opening day?they always seem to slump after a sb appearance.How could anyone overlook tenn?They didn't.People dont like losing though and can rebound after a loss.What,did you think all of a sudden balt was great cuz they won 1 game?

they overlooked them and got caught in a trap game, plain and simple. based on your theory, every week one loser should've won week two then.

What if Luck ends up not being the best prospect this year?.....or if the colts are done after wk2,then they weren't good enough anyway,even with a healthy peyton!.....If luck is so good then what do you need peytons old ass for anyway?advice dont win games.If you trade up for luck then trade peyton for more picks,then you also save a ton of cap space to sign free agents.they might end up w/ a good team then.If luck is so good he should start right away,right?:ROFL:

ummm, are you serious? that team may not be GREAT but it is GOOD with peyton. it's been built to play a certain style that fits peyton. they're having to change their identify to fit another QB with parts from a system that fit a completely different QB and OMG...WITH A FUTURE QB THEY MAY CHANGE IDENTITIES TOO! in a league where today you either live or die by your QB, you cannot afford to pass up luck if you have the opportunity to get him WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY A TON. you do realize it's indy? big names QB aren't dying to go and play in indy because of their legacy. they don't even bring in big name free agents period. Quick, name the last big name free agent they signed.

i'm not saying that luck will be the greatest QB ever, what i'm saying is no team in position to get him can afford to pass him up and find out that he really was worth all the hype.

it amuses me that an indy fan knowing you do not have a back up and peyton could get hurt any game that you would not secure your future by drafting the best QB in the draft and have him be sitting on your bench available for the next 5 years. you want to trade down and get matt barkley instead? kellen moore? wait wait...you're going to find the next relative unknown and take him with the 199th pick and he'll be the next brady? yeaaah, teams try that every year, it was fluke luck
 
with all the talk about Luck, I was wondering when someone was going to say something about Moore. I'm not sure if you're saying he's not good or what you're saying exactly, but to me he's the best QB in college football. He may be pretty small, but he can already read defenses like a pro and has tremendous accuracy. Alright, now all the Boise State haters can attack me, although this is an NFL thread, so why am I talking about college prospects? We're only a few weeks into the season.
 
i like moore but i do not know how he translates into the pros.....the next chad pennington? why are we talking about prospects two weeks into the season? it's that huge glaring hole after the colts sudden fall from grace that makes me wonder about their future. if any team knows the benefit of drafting a great QB, it's the colts

plus it's shocking, i honestly thought the colts had amazing skilled players and they'd be able to go atleast .500 but after losing to the browns......i'm starting to wonder who CAN they beat
 
i like moore but i do not know how he translates into the pros.....the next chad pennington? why are we talking about prospects two weeks into the season? it's that huge glaring hole after the colts sudden fall from grace that makes me wonder about their future. if any team knows the benefit of drafting a great QB, it's the colts

plus it's shocking, i honestly thought the colts had amazing skilled players and they'd be able to go atleast .500 but after losing to the browns......i'm starting to wonder who CAN they beat

Still too early to say. I saw quite a bit of improvement from the play of the defense and I believe that we are only a few players away from being much more formidable than any defense the Colts have fielded in the past decade...which is part of the reason I'd rather trade down, pick up those pieces and have a respectable defense and then look for the next QB of the future.

As for the change in identity, that has been in the works long before Peyton ever got hurt. Since Dungy left, the new staff has made an obvious attempt at going after bigger, stronger players than what Dungy had. The same is true of the offense, they've been spending higher draft picks on bigger OL guys to improve the running game. Add that to Delone Carter who is nothing like the prototypical back the Colts have had in the past.

And again, if Luck is as NFL ready as everyone is making him out to be then he is not the type of QB you "need" to pickup and let sit for 3-5 years. Everyone is comparing it to Favre/Rogers and Montana/Young but both of these arguments are flawed for being used to draft Luck. Rogers was a late first round pick, not a #1 pick. If he were as NFL ready coming out of college as people are claiming Luck is then he would have been taken #1 as well.

As for Montana and Young....San Fran didn't even draft Young. They acquired him from Tampa Bay who drafted him in an NFL supplemental draft of USFL and CFL players. So again, if he were as NFL ready as people are saying Luck is then I'd think he would have been taken in the regular NFL draft instead of going to the USFL first.

Point is, from all the hype around him, Luck isn't the type of QB you pick up when you need to develop someone. Trading down an acquiring additional draft picks helps to shore up other critical areas of need (NT, CB to start with) and we can still draft a talented QB in the 2nd or 3rd rounds who could well turn into a much better QB after having been tutored by Manning for 3-4 years. Not only do we not lose out on the opportunity to draft first round defensive talent, but in the mean time we save money by paying less to a 2nd or 3rd round QB instead of what we'd otherwise pay for a #1 overall QB contract.
 
"personally i can't wait to see your redskins who haven't played squat yet come back down to earth. you're giddy after 2 weeks but shooting down people predicting the colt's fate after 2 weeks? please tell me what team right now looks like it'll end up with a worse record"
you said they would lose,so maybe you shouldn't take things so"personally"because obviously they are much improved,which you didn't know.btw-the colts sucked before peyton went down,but you guys are talking next year and drafts in week 2.
Once agin-did anyone SEE the hit on Ryan sunday night?Or to be rude,did anyone here actually WATCH that game?
 
eh, i'm no football consultant, i'm not giving advice, just a personal opinion, we're all free to have them. i'm just going to politely disagree with jason_s reading of the colt's situation. i feel strongly that if you have the opportunity to take luck, you take him and nothing anyone can say will change my mind about it and i'm sure nothing anyone says will make him change his mind either.


yes i watched the falcons philly's game...i don't care about ryan's hit and doing the split. it didn't make me think any differently of him. i think he's a top 8 QB in the league and could care less if he's tough or not
 
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