Geophagus winemilleri and Satanoperca daemon tank
- Thread starter peathenster
- Start date
Thanks
Thanks JD
Jamie is on the move again. Saw him looking for tanks a little while ago, lol
Of all the Geos I've kept, the orange heads are the most sensitive to pH drop. Weird...
Thank you. Here is the progression:
March 2010:
May 2010
June 2010
Aug. 2010
Oct. 2010
July 2011
Dec. 2011
Those pics are georgeous! Now I'm definitely getting some winemileri...
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Peter, do you think they're truly winemilleri? I ask because the blue markings on yours are a lot more mottled in appearance than other winemilleri I've seen. Even the ones you sent me have the blue in more uniform horizontal lines. I also don't notice the dark maroon backing color in mine, but that could be something to do with our different water quality.
I'm keeping all my Geos in moderately hard water with a pH in the mid 7s and they seem fine. They eat well and don't show any HITH or anything. I've never tried Satanoperca for that reason. It's something I'd like to try in the future, though... the daemon really are gorgeous. I love that they have the same tail markings as Cichla and certain Saxatilis-type Crenicichla. Weird how they all evolved with similar features. My saxatilis pike has the yellow/red caudal fin with the big black ocellus spot on it.
I'm keeping all my Geos in moderately hard water with a pH in the mid 7s and they seem fine. They eat well and don't show any HITH or anything. I've never tried Satanoperca for that reason. It's something I'd like to try in the future, though... the daemon really are gorgeous. I love that they have the same tail markings as Cichla and certain Saxatilis-type Crenicichla. Weird how they all evolved with similar features. My saxatilis pike has the yellow/red caudal fin with the big black ocellus spot on it.
Good question Ryan. They fit all the descriptions and I have no reason to suspect that they are not G. winemilleri, but I do agree that the wild group I sent you looked different. I think it's mostly in coloration.....other features (bars, etc) were similar.
The daemon sure have a unique look! Head is almost like Cichla, lol. From what I read, they do need very low pH (~pH3-4) to spawn, but they can live in higher pH water. I think 7s is not too bad.
If I were going to try it, I'd want to try it with F1s, or at least small wild-caught ones. I heard similar things about psittacus but mine is gigantic and seems to love my water. He is F1 or F2 though, I think.
I always see pictures of G. proximus on cichlidae.com and think they look like your winemilleri in coloration and in the blue markings. Unfortunately, my subscription expired, so I can't get back to it now. For all I know they have features that are totally different than proximus; I'm just basing it on the coloration mostly. Also, yours seem more elongated than the examples of winemilleri I've seen.
Maybe there are geographical variants like everything else? This is why cichlids are confusing.
I always see pictures of G. proximus on cichlidae.com and think they look like your winemilleri in coloration and in the blue markings. Unfortunately, my subscription expired, so I can't get back to it now. For all I know they have features that are totally different than proximus; I'm just basing it on the coloration mostly. Also, yours seem more elongated than the examples of winemilleri I've seen.
Maybe there are geographical variants like everything else? This is why cichlids are confusing.
Based on Lopez-Fernandez et al.'s key, yours are G. winemilleri. However, there is a similar morphospecies that Lopez-Fernandez is describing from the Rupununi River in Guyana that may turn out to be different; I recall that it, too, has the wide lateral bars with the big spot aligned with the 3rd lateral bar as well as a dark chin marking. There is too much natural variability in coloration to use that as a reliable factor in distinguishing species. Based on the current literature, your fish are almost certainly winemilleri.
If I were going to try it, I'd want to try it with F1s, or at least small wild-caught ones. I heard similar things about psittacus but mine is gigantic and seems to love my water. He is F1 or F2 though, I think.
I always see pictures of G. proximus on cichlidae.com and think they look like your winemilleri in coloration and in the blue markings. Unfortunately, my subscription expired, so I can't get back to it now. For all I know they have features that are totally different than proximus; I'm just basing it on the coloration mostly. Also, yours seem more elongated than the examples of winemilleri I've seen.
Maybe there are geographical variants like everything else? This is why cichlids are confusing.
These were imported by from Germany by Mark (AnubiasDesign) in late 2009. Unfortunately I think the locality information is no longer available. I agree that they do have a more streamlined look. Also agree that raise wild fish from juvies is probably the ideal situation. My G. brokopondo group were imported as 2" juvies and turned out well. IME, wild caught jumbo adults are hit or miss.
Tank-bred S. daemon are probably very difficult to find. There are only a few documented breeding events. My pair seem to want to try it periodically, but never completed it. See the video below for digging/courting activities. I think softer water, deeper sand and some privacy would help.
[video=youtube;r9-VmoYKxro]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9-VmoYKxro[/video]
Thanks buddy
I agree that there seem to be lots of natural variations. Perhaps less so than some other species (e.g., G. altifrons), but still quite obvious. It really underlines the importance of not cross breeding fish from different regions, but let's not get into that
