CREATING THE ULTIMATE FILTRATION AND EVOLVING WITH YOUR FISH!!!!!!

[jcardona1]

Also, when it comes to backwash, all the crap from the first filter will enter the 2nd one, and who know whether all of them will get out.

Don't they have a 3rd line for waste/drain? But yeah I can see those canister filters clogging fast. You'd probably need several from coarse to fine to avoid them from clogging so quickly.

 

[kendragon]

The downside with that system is the mechamical filtration get clogged, reduced the flow when it gets to the bead and the glass filter. Once, I thought I would improve by puttting two Ultima back to back, but I also thought about whether the flow came out from the first one will be sufficient for the second one. Also, when it comes to backwash, all the crap from the first filter will enter the 2nd one, and who know whether all of them will get out. With those two thoughts, I decided just to stick with one filter, and backwash. I still have an Ultima 2000 sit and collect dust

Same experience for me. Mechanical will slow the flow to the bead filter. I did a bypass so if the mechanical clogs it would bypass it and not affect the flow. Problem is I defeated the whole purpose of the mechanical. Mat cartridge is now installed to maintain high flow rate.

 

[jlnguyen74]

Bakki shower is great for pond. I still have 20kg of those bio-house media. Works wonder in wet/dry with 2000+gph flow. I could notice the fish love it within week of switching out bio-ball to those media. However, we dont' keep tank on ground level, so with stand and tank height, there's not much height above, plus I don't want to see all those racks above my tank If I put my monster tank on the floor, I rather put another monster tank on top of it.

 

[jlnguyen74]

Don't they have a 3rd line for waste/drain? But yeah I can see those canister filters clogging fast. You'd probably need several from coarse to fine to avoid them from clogging so quickly.

Yes, but if you back wash the first one, water won't come into the second one. However, you did make a good point that I overlooked. Maybe I could back wash the second one first, then backwash the first one, or vice versa. This thread is getting good!

 

[jcardona1]

Same experience for me. Mechanical will slow the flow to the bead filter. I did a bypass so if the mechanical clogs it would bypass it and not affect the flow. Problem is I defeated the whole purpose of the mechanical. Mat cartridge is now installed to maintain high flow rate.

View attachment 823382

Is this the one you're using? Holy crap they are expensive! http://wlimproducts.com/index.php?o...-filters&catid=5:individual-filters&Itemid=19

What's the filter media made out of? Does it need replacing eventually?

 

[kendragon]

Is this the one you're using? Holy crap they are expensive! http://wlimproducts.com/index.php?o...-filters&catid=5:individual-filters&Itemid=19

What's the filter media made out of? Does it need replacing eventually?

Hell no....I can't afford that. This is my homemade "poor man's" system. Chambers are from the pool store. I put bio media inside the sand filter and made my own mech cartridge.

 

[jcardona1]

Hell no....I can't afford that. This is my homemade "poor man's" system. Chambers are from the pool store. I put bio media inside the sand filter and made my own mech cartridge.

We're gonna need more details

What chamber/canister are you using for the mechanical filter? And what type of bio media in the sand filter?

 

[kendragon]

We're gonna need more details

What chamber/canister are you using for the mechanical filter? And what type of bio media in the sand filter?

I use Hayward only because I like the way they look (just me). You can get cheaper ones. The bead I use is from wlim. They are heavier and thicker and won't deform during the pressure of backwash. Lighter ones will get pushed out of the multiport valve. I hate Easter Bead hunts on the driveway.

 

[jlnguyen74]

I'm not here to fight...just here to talk filtration. I like what I’m reading here…lots of good info.

I agree with you Hulon that you can theoretically keep Ammonia and Nitrites under control regardless of stock; with enough turnover and surface area for beneficial bacteria to grow, I think that can fairly easily be accomplished. But the BumbleBee Grouper in the room (c’mon, that’s funny!) that Jose mentioned in his first post, but has gone ignored is NITRATES. I believe you would need an impractical amount of plant filtration, Denitrification filtration (which I don’t know much about, but understand comes with it’s own potential dangers) or massive amounts of water changes in order to keep nitrates down in a heavily overstocked tank.

Having said that, I think that maintaining stable water parameters is something vital to the health of the fish we keep. Spikes in Nitrate levels and PH levels will (over time) take their toll on the fish. I have yet to see a method of removing nitrates from a heavily overstocked tank that is consistent and stable enough for me to consider "safe" for the fish. As Nitrates rise, PH tends to drop. Doing a huge water change typically spikes your PH levels, sending fish into “PH shock.” I think these swings are responsible for a lot of the “mystery deaths” that some of us experience.

I think it was Jose that also first mentioned ponds. Koi are disgustingly messy fish...they are total pigs. A very general rule of thumb that I’ve heard thrown around the koi keeping community is 1 koi per 500 gallons. I think the reason for this rule is the adage “dilution is the solution to pollution.” Concentrating huge bio-loads in smaller bodies of water is going to be an uphill battle (think Mt. Everest). What some of us are doing is the equivalent of putting a dozen koi into a 500G pond and I think that presents a huge challenge…and ultimately the reason Hulon created this thread.

Since most of us can’t fit a lake in our homes, I think filtration or maintenance that addresses Nitrate levels is what I would love to hear from you guys on. You guys are fighting a good fight, but part of the reason I stock the way I do is because of the issue of maintaining stable water parameters. I’m not here to tell you to get rid of your huge fish…I already tried that and it didn’t work =/ However, I am here to learn how you keep Nitrates down to acceptable levels while simultaneously maintaining stable water parameters.

*After writing all of this and giving it some more thought, I just realized that perhaps a drip system is the holy grail to maintaining stable water parameters in heavily stocked tanks. Do people that run drip systems still have issues with PH swings from the heavy bio-load? How do you dose conditioner if your water is treated with chloramine or chlorine?

I will stay off of your thread if you prefer that I go away....just let me know and I will respect that.

I'm not going to ruin a good thread, so if you just here to talk filtration, then let's talk filtration. You brought the grouper to this thread, not Jose. Some of us chose to ignore it, because we're talking about filtration, not about grouper. That grouper could be pet, nitrate, or dinner...

I agree that maintaining stable water parameters is something vital to the health of the fish we keep. Spikes in Nitrate levels and PH levels will (over time) take their toll on the fish, just as same as temperature swing. Fortunately, those are something that we can work with, like drip system, doing frequently small water change. Also, keeper and fish can learn and adjusting with each other. Some learns from those "mystery death," and work with it. Some shy from those "mystery death." That's individual's choice. If fish can learn to adjust to the environment, likes African Scat that live in freshwater, they can adjust to live in America or California water, too. Just like wildcaught fish tend to be more "sensitive" than captive bred. Is it because they're weak gene, or is it because they just need time to adjust to their new environment? That's just a rehtorical question...

Well, I quoted this from a Koi's site:

There is an old koi saying that you are not a koi keeper, but rather a water keeper. Keep great water and the koi take care of themselves. The general rule of thumb is 10 gallons per inch, but you have to consider how big the koi will eventually get so assuming a full size adult is on average 25 inches, then you are looking at 250 gallons per adult koi. But as with most things in life, the "general rule" doesn't really tell the whole story or cover every situation. It all comes down to your ability to maintain good water quality. And for this there are many other considerations. The quality of filtration is one of the biggest factors. The ability of the filter to remove solid waste as well as grow enough beneficial bacteria to convert all the ammonia produced by the koi. Also, you need to consider aeration and circulation, these are crucial elements to healthy water. Another big factor is feeding. If you over feed with a low quality food, then you will have more waste to deal with, but if you feed lightly with a high quality food, then it will be easier to maintain good quality water. And lastly is the X factor....namely you. How much time do you want to spend keeping your water and what do you want from your koi in terms of growth and development? A heavier stocking density (50-100 gallons per koi) means more water changes, more testing, more treatments, more time and probably lower overall growth and color development. A lighter stocking density (400-500 gallons per koi) means less maintenance, less work, and overall better growth and color. High end hobbyists raising koi for competition will often stock one koi per 800 to 1000 gallons.

 

[jcardona1]

I use Hayward only because I like the way they look (just me). You can get cheaper ones. The bead I use is from wlim. They are heavier and thicker and won't deform during the pressure of backwash. Lighter ones will get pushed out of the multiport valve. I hate Easter Bead hunts on the driveway.
View attachment 823395

Yeah that's one of the things I heard about using plastic beads in sand filters. So no internal mods were necessary? And I wonder if you could hook up a blower to a sand filter with beads inside. It sure would save a hell of a lot of money. The price difference between sand and bead filters is enormous and I've always wondered if they were that much different internally. It seems to be the same basic functions.