so no big box stores. theres a james lumber hardware nearme or a huge lumber house near beach blvd and the 5 freeway. they specialize in lumber. i assume they will cary what i need. screws glue, wood, and silicon i think 795 is what everyones using. im puting together a list so i can get started as soon as next weekend. gonna be a ruff build since im on disability and can only stand for brief periods of time. perfect for a labor build right? lol
upcomming plywood build.
- Thread starter surfpalmsncycads
- Start date
Use dow corning 795 if your using acrylic, normal GE silicone 1 or 2 (100% silicone) if you use glass.
so im framimg the tank for strength gluing all joining surfaces, screwing it every 2.5 inches or so and fiberglassing all joints, corners. im using silicone on the glass and fiberglassing over that. what liquid should i use that i can roll on everything and be done? i need it to adhere to wood, fiberglass, silicone,and glass.
Why do you need your water proofer to adhere to glass and silicone? Typically the silicone and glass go over the sealed plywood, not the other way around.
Assuming you don't, how far is it from Whittier to San Diego?
I ask because Aero Marine is down there and they would sell fiberglass, epoxy to wet it out with/seal your tank with and also thickening agents to make fillets along all of your interior seams. They might also sell dyes you can tint the epoxy with.
I haven't dealt with Aero Marine but have heard good things about them. If it's a reasonable drive or you go to San Diego often then you save a lot on shipping.
They have a 1.5 gallon kit with metering pumps for $99. That's $66 per gallon with pumps. Nice price.
If you need to ship anyways then there is always US Composites and Max ACR.
1.5 gallons of epoxy will cover 120 square feet at 20 one-thousandths (aka 20 mils) thickness. That assumes a perfectly smooth surface and no waste of course. You'll need extra to wet out the fiberglass reinforcement. If you know how much fiberglass you're going to apply I can help you calculate that amount.
Here is Aero Marine's website.
http://www.aeromarineproducts.com/
US Composites is easy to find on google and Max ACR sells on Ebay.
I'm a fan of epoxy resin for plywood tanks. Low odor and if done properly costs less than other options because it takes less to seal plywood. But there are contact allergy issues with it in some people and some people don't like the accurate mixing required.
What's the difference between epoxy and polyester laminating resins? I used a lighter polyester resin to penetrate chop mat.
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I don't think that either resin would have problems with penetrating chop mat, but I bought what I used cause that's what it was recommended for. Just wondering if there's any advantage to using epoxy over polyester.
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There are not many major differences beyond the chemical makeup of the two resins. The one MAJOR difference though is that polyester resin IS NOT safe for aquarium and water storage use. It can be used to wet out fiberglass cloth or mat, but it must be completely covered in a layer of epoxy resin.
surfpalmsncycads - I know exactly where you are. The lumber yard is called Ganahl Lumber. They sell good wood that is sustainably harvested. If you want the good quality screws you will need to find a store that specializes in connectors such as bolts, screws, etc. Ganahl's are middle level. DO NOT USE Galvanized (toxic and leech even not touching water can cause problems). Use stainless steel wood screws. If you are looking for a decent fiberglass and resin place there is a place on Placentia Ave. in Costa Mesa and called Crystalliner Corporation.
surfpalmsncycads - I know exactly where you are. The lumber yard is called Ganahl Lumber. They sell good wood that is sustainably harvested. If you want the good quality screws you will need to find a store that specializes in connectors such as bolts, screws, etc. Ganahl's are middle level. DO NOT USE Galvanized (toxic and leech even not touching water can cause problems). Use stainless steel wood screws. If you are looking for a decent fiberglass and resin place there is a place on Placentia Ave. in Costa Mesa and called Crystalliner Corporation.
Well for chop mat polyester is supposed to be much better than epoxy but I'm not a fan of chopped mat for plywood tanks. Don't get me wrong, I have used it on plywood tanks that held water but I'd much rather use medium weight cloth. Mat is the weakest of the three types of fiberglass reinforcement, isn't really of much benefit on flat surfaces and also takes the most resin to wet out, which overcomes the fact that it's the cheapest. There are some in the boat building community that also feel mat is also the mostly likely to lead to water penetration if not applied properly.
Now assuming one isn't using fiberglass mat in a plywood tank build, the comparisons between epoxy and polyester are a bit more straightforward.
Polyester tends to flash off quicker and sag less, which in some ways makes it easier for vertical or overhead laminations. It is also less expensive but the price difference between polyester and epoxy seems to be shrinking.
The downsides are that is has a strong odor, is more moisture permeable than epoxy and is also weaker and less elastic than epoxy.
There are those like the previous poster who say polyester is toxic when cured. I'm not up to date on that but there are recent builds here on MFK that were sealed with nothing buy polyester and have held water (and fish) for years. I personally have built polyester sealed tanks that held fish for decades but to be fair that was a long time ago. I can't say for sure modern polyester is still safe.
As far as epoxy, it is generally stronger, more flexible and has much better bonding properties than polyester. It also exhibits less shrinkage than polyester.
When used on cloth on horizontal surfaces many find it easier to work with since it cures slower and flows out a bit better. Some beginners like epoxy better because they generally feel like they have more time. Of course epoxy cure rate is much more susceptible to temperature so even a 10* temperature difference can be very noticeable when wetting out fiberglass. On the same hand, epoxy is probably more susceptible to mixing errors than polyester, although you can read forum posts about people having trouble getting both types to cure properly. This is usually due to incomplete mixing or in some cases incorrect ratios of resin to hardener.
One other point, my comments above only apply to the thinner, less viscous types of epoxy. I have zero experience with the thicker types of epoxy that are trowled on.
I hope that helps. I'll write more if I think of something.
I did some asking around, made a couple of calls and found out that polyester is indeed not recommended for water storage. I was told that I should coat the polyester resin with a coat of epoxy resin. I found out also that epoxy is 2-3 times more expensive and catalyst is also more expensive then polyester. No one I talked to said anything about polyester being poisonous, but that its not as water resistant as epoxy. CJH, your response was very informative and I learned quite a bit from it. I did however apply a first layer of 7.5 oz fiberglass cloth followed by a layer of chop mat on all 5 sides of my aquarium. Chop mat is also a very thirst material to use. Chop mat required 2x the resin for complete saturation compared to 7.50 oz mat. I am happy with overall results. All this new info regarding epoxy resin has thrown a monkey wrench in my plans but I'd rather be safe than sorry. Thanx guys.
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