HELP with a New 180 gallon African Cichlid Tank

[Slippery69]

I personally disagree with the acrylic suggestion. Buying new probably does have it's benefits, but when acrylic ages, it looks terrible. I have a 125 glass, and a 55 acrylic. I wish I'd never bought the acrylic, and am, in fact, currently hunting for a good deal on a decent quality 55-90 gallon glass to replace it. I'll still keep the acrylic, but will probably set it aside for a female tank, or convert it into a sump for my others.

It scratches, it hazes, it 'fracs', and the additional support structures on the top limit the size of items I can put into the tank. Also, in my opinion, cleaning algae off acrylic seems much tougher than off of glass.

Yeah, that's my concern with Acrylic. I've never had acrylic and from what I've heard my age about as "gracefully" as clear silicone on glass. But at least with glass its only the seams that look crappy.

Thanks for your counterpoint. Its great to hear both sides.

 

[Slippery69]

Can I ask where you're trying to special order the black silicone 180 from that it's so expensive? I don't know if it will help you any, but I saw a 120 w/ black silicone + stand, glass lids and light combo for $579.00 at the PetSmart in Clovis, CA. May help to broaden your search area?

What you saw is probably Marineland or possibly Top Fin. I've owned many tanks over the past years and every one of them Aqueon / All Glass Aquarium (essentially the same) and trust that brand. To me Top Fin and Marineland don't compare with Aqueon. Silicone can be sloppy and braces are light weight. Plus only 2 cross braces on those brands whereas Aqueon has 3. I guess its just preference but I'm going for Aqueon and there's a bit of a price premium to pay there. Problem is, they do their tanks with clear silicone.

They do take custom orders for black silicone but it adds about $50 to the cost of the tank. BUT, when you special order you are now paying MSRP retail prices. I called around to stores in the area where I live in the mid-atlantic and got prices for the 180 clear silicone Aqueon tank ranging from $599 up to $979! I spoke with Aqueon and there is a huge range in prices from one store to another because it all depends on when they acquire their tanks. There are times throughout the year when Aqueon has special pricing and if stores take advantage of those times they get deep discounts which they can pass along to the customer. If not, stores pay higher (and sometimes MUCH higher) prices (basically MSRP, which for a 180 in my area is around 900. So, add $50 for custom black silicone upgrade and you got $950.

So the lesson here is always shop around for tank prices!

 

[Slippery69]

I would use the filters you have should be enough and run external heaters on the xp4s. I would not put gravel in the sand. No need.

I would also recommend led lights. I would not do all dark rock back and sand... too dark. Dark back is good. Also get holey rock as it is not as rough as lace and base rock

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Thanks.

Are you talking about the Hydor ETH external heaters? To my knowledge there are no others. Right?

My only hesitation with this approach (well there are actually two) is does it restrict flow through the filter? And, by having an inline heater you now loose heat as well if one of your filters goes down. I don't know, maybe not a big deal. Oh, and with 2 XP4's with 5/8" output and 1 FX5 with 1" output I could only run two Hydor's and with the largest size being 300 watts, that would only be 600 watts. I don't think 3 watts per gallon will be enough since the room the tank will be in gets down to 55 to 60 degrees overnight in the winter. I could jack the overnight room temp. up but that would have a big impact on my gas bill! Its an isolated room unused overnight with three cold exterior walls, cathedral ceiling and lots of windows. In other words an icebox to heat.

Any specific LED's you recommend? I'm hung up on not having infinite control over bulb color. Maybe that's stupid.

As for the rest. I do want a black background. Thinking of painting flat black. Good idea?

I'm leaning toward a mixed grain size sand substrate. I like the look of the CariSea Arag-Alive Indo Pacific Black Sand but altered to be darker with much less white. So here's what I like about it: mixed color to hide detritus/algae in between cleanings and the mixed grain sizes is cool. It has fine aragonite sand mixed with black volcanic particles. In a big tank I like the look of a mixed grain size. However, the problem with this particular substrate is this is MARINE substrate and it is LIVE sand full of ocean critters, well you know what I mean I've heard you can rinse the hell out of it and then set it out in the sun or place in a warm oven to kill everything alive and then give it a good final rinse.

CariSea Arag-Alive Indo Pacific Black Sand (0.25mm-5mm):

Now to this I'd add maybe some Eco-Complete Zack Black (4mm-10mm) substrate (a courser black particle size):

or Nature's Ocean Natural Black Live Cichlid Sand (1.2mm-1.7mm):

Or skip the CariSea Arag-Alive Indo Pacific Black, and instead do salt and pepper (B+W) cichlid sand mixed with a little fine white sand, plus maybe some Nature's Ocean Natural Black Live Cichlid Sand (above) and some course black Eco-Complete Zack Black (also above).

The typical Cichlid B+W aragonite substrate (0.5mm-1.5mm):

Then to top it all off, and because I like to play mad-scientist and to fulfill my artistic needs, maybe throw in a sprinkling of Rift Lake Substrates
Live Cichlid Gravel (6mm-8mm):

Now, for rock. By holey rock I assume you mean Texas Holey Rock. In a 180 that might bankrupt me. Out of the 3 contenders: holey, lace and base rock, I can't seam to find any of it locally. Yes the LFS have small bins of small fragments at a ridiculous price. No one has more than a few really small pieces. On line it seams that you can find boxes from 25 to 50 pounds, but even those are gonna show up with relatively small pieces.

I need large pieces (yeah some small are fine) but I gotta have some good sized pieces to make this work. And by good sized pieces I'm talking...well I don't really know but see the pic below...I'm thinking at at least 15/20, 25/30 pounders and even maybe 40 pounder would be so sweet. I just can't locate anything.

So if my choices were unlimited and I could locate it here's what I'd like to achieve:
Its from another website and it's identified only as "Texas Limestone Rock". I like that it is a little holey but not swiss cheese. I really dislike the swiss cheese looking holey rock.
Anyone know where I can get this exact rock?


Thanks for the great input and I look forward to more!

 

[jrthor_85]

That rock is "Lace Rock" basically limestone, and I've heard it's from Salt Lake City area. Lots of fish stores sell it $3-5/pound. I'm sure you could find it cheaper at a landscaping supply but I've never looked.

How much/thick substrate do you want? for a 180gallon I'd guesstimate 150lbs? buying the premixed/live stuff can be upwards of 4$/lb. that's a LOT of money on sand. If you want mixed grain sizes and aragonite, shop around. I found a place that ordered me 90lbs of #5 crushed coral for $.70/lb, and then filled in with play sand at essentially $.10/lb. For the salt and pepper look, I've seen others post here about some black diamond blasting sand that can be gotten at some contractor supplies and I'm sure the prices will be much nicer than what you find from any fish supply. No real need to blow money on the 'live sand' stuff for freshwater, as the substrate will populate anyway when you cycle the tank. It may be a nice thing for a small 5 or 10 gallon tank to set up and go, but is very cost prohibitive for a large tank.

 

[paulW]

I personally disagree with the acrylic suggestion. Buying new probably does have it's benefits, but when acrylic ages, it looks terrible..

I don't know.. maybe your acrylic tank was made of a lower quality material?
I bought my acrylic tank used.. It's probably 15 years old now.. It has been exposed to the sun from a window most of its life.. Still crystal clear. I run a UV sterilizer, and my fish look like they are swimming through air, it's that clear.

The OP is getting very pricey quotes for a glass 180.. it doesn't seem like he's saving money going for glass.. Once glass costs about as much as acyrlic, it's a no brainer to get an acyrlic tank, IMO (Glass main advantage is that it's cheaper).

I had a glass 180.. took 3-4 people to carry it.. very heavy, and then you have to stress out over breaking it.
As I said in another thread, Some friends helped me move a glass 240, and they accidently broke it.. it was a total loss. I will go acyrlic for everything over 125 gallon now..

 

[paulW]

As for water changes, I have a window about two feet from where the tank is going, so I plan on using that to my advantage and just stick the end of the hose out the window Also the FX5 has an option where you can connect a hose to the outlet and just pump the tank out that way. Might give that a shot.

That's a nice feature.. seems like you got that worked out. Good luck with your tank.. even though you are going with glass

 

[jrthor_85]

I don't know.. maybe your acrylic tank was made of a lower quality material?

It's a TruVu. I don't know if they're supposed to be good or not, but that's what it is.

While my dislike for acrylic may be skewed by a possible low quality tank, I do have to agree on the size/weight issue. My largest is a 125 glass, and I'm pretty sure that if I do get a larger tank 180/220 it will probably end up acrylic for the simple fact that I don't want to have to hire a crew to rearrange my livingroom/fish room.

 

[Slippery69]

I don't know.. maybe your acrylic tank was made of a lower quality material?
I bought my acrylic tank used.. It's probably 15 years old now.. It has been exposed to the sun from a window most of its life.. Still crystal clear. I run a UV sterilizer, and my fish look like they are swimming through air, it's that clear.

The OP is getting very pricey quotes for a glass 180.. it doesn't seem like he's saving money going for glass.. Once glass costs about as much as acyrlic, it's a no brainer to get an acyrlic tank, IMO (Glass main advantage is that it's cheaper).

I had a glass 180.. took 3-4 people to carry it.. very heavy, and then you have to stress out over breaking it.
As I said in another thread, Some friends helped me move a glass 240, and they accidently broke it.. it was a total loss. I will go acyrlic for everything over 125 gallon now..

OK, you've got me interested. Any suggestions or recommendations on sourcing out an acrylic 180?
Thanks.

 

[Paulbearer]

I'm getiing my 350 from fishtanksdirect.com you can check them out.

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[paulW]

OK, you've got me interested. Any suggestions or recommendations on sourcing out an acrylic 180?
Thanks.

AquaArt built my tank (they are in ohio). There's a seller on ebay .. Midwest Custom Aquariums ? They have been doing it a long time with good feedback. I'd be very very leary of buying from someone that is just getting started.
There was an ebay seller that would sell tanks, but every once in awhile, he'd have a tank where the seam would break. He'd just create a new ebay account and start over.

Probably the best way to get an acrylic tank is to watch ebay and Craigslist for local listings. That's how I got my tank.
As a bonus, most of the used tanks have been used for a few years so you know the seams are solid.. Just give it a look over to make sure there's no bad scratching, make the seller fill it, etc. I got my 300 g used off CL.

Anyhow, you want a tank made from Cell Cast Acrylic made in the USA. I have read the Chineese cell cast isn't as good. Also extruded Acrylic is the kind that turns yellow (I think). Mine is cell cast, and like I said, still looks great after about 15 years. If I think of it, I will add a pict to this thread.