One goal in fish keeping life: Raise monster sized fish of my favorite cichlid species. 20" Festae, 22" Jag, 28" Dovii, 13"+ Grammode, 18" RTM, 30" Umbee.
20 inch ex-Cichlasoma festae
- Thread starter RD.
- Start date
It seems to me that you've been implying just that, and you certainly haven't held back your feelings here on MFK over the years.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?321830-How-big-can-oscar-get/page2
For someone that states that they simply don't care that much, you certainly have taken a rather firm position on the subject.
Have you ever tried photographing a very large "active" moving fish in some kind of scaled setting that would suit your kind of standards? Most serious hobbyists also aren't going to remove a massive fish from its tank just to line a tape measure up against it, just to prove a point with some naysayer on a fish forum. Most of those types of fish would need to be tranq'd just to prevent them from injuring themselves.
The fact that you have never personally seen any specimens a certain size, doesn't mean that they don't exist. Not everything that takes place within this hobby can be found on google.
And on that note, I have personally seen clown loaches that were 14-15", and as thick as my forearm. I believe they were priced at $450, a piece. The last time that I was in this store they still had one (not for sale) that is 12" or better. Had I known this (CL sizes) was going to come up today, I could have asked the owner of that store for its TL yesterday when he stopped in. Do I have pictures of these clown loaches, no. Do I give a rats azz if anyone cares if I have pictures, not in the least. lol This store is approx 2 hrs away from my home or I would be glad to take some pics & post them up for you. Perhaps some day down the road.
Never say never .........
The real moral of this story is of you want to grow fish out to their max potential, you need to keep them long enough to see them reach their max potential, which quite frankly is something that you truly don't see a lot of in this hobby.
Well I guess that I won't be getting pics of that 12"+ clown loach. I just spoke to the owner & I guess it died since the last time I was in his store. He had originally imported several in the 10" range, and kept them for 15+ yrs in a massive display tank. He said that he never actualy got a tape measure on one of them, but that they were all easily well over 12" when he sold them. They were by far the largest clown loaches that I have ever seen, and most likely ever will see. But again, how many people own clown loaches that are 20+ yrs old? It takes some serious time & dedication to grow a CL out to 12-14".
I'm not going to derail the thread further, you have your opinions and so do I, and I'm not going to bother trying to justify them any more as its just likely to get messy.
I do agree that one of the biggest barriers to seeing super sized fish in the hobby is people not keeping them long enough. I had some of my old CL's for over eight years and saw how their growth slowed as they aged. Also growing out a large group of young ones I saw different growth rates in individual fish, not all of them have the genetics to grow enormous, just as not every person has the potential to grow to 7' tall.
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I do agree that one of the biggest barriers to seeing super sized fish in the hobby is people not keeping them long enough. I had some of my old CL's for over eight years and saw how their growth slowed as they aged. Also growing out a large group of young ones I saw different growth rates in individual fish, not all of them have the genetics to grow enormous, just as not every person has the potential to grow to 7' tall.
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I forget the technical term but fish continue to grow throughout their lives...while humans do not.
Matt
Matt
David, I think that difference between you & I is that you are basing your comments on your personal opinion, where my comments are based more on facts, and real world experience.
I'm not sure what your point is supposed to be? Like many members here on MFK I too have experience keeping CL's, and I'm quite familiar with their growth rates etc. In my case I not only had a large group, they were raised in a species only tank where I could really enjoy their behaviour when being the dominant and only species of fish in the tank. While not all CL's are hard wired to grow enormous, when you are importing wild specimens that are already 10 inches or better, that pretty much guarantees that if you keep them for long enough they will eventually exceed 12". CL's of this size are not as rare as some people think, they come up for sale out of Sumatra every season, where there is no size restriction on collection or export. (such as there is in Kalimantan) I show a photo of some recently imported 8-10" Sumatran CL's on page 2 of the following thread.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?491976-Clown-Loaches-Kalimantan-vs-Sumatra
You might find that an interesting read - outside of that article that I wrote you also won't find that information anywhere on google.
One last thing, l have seen a lot of large wild CL's imported over the years, and they are always shaped like a long skinny hot dog (just like the ones in the link above) - not big & chunky like those that one typically sees in older CL's that have been raised in capitivty. The 14" CL's that the store previously mentioned sold were all obese, not just chunky. They were raised in a large display tank with Asian arowana, and spent their entire time in captivity eating large amounts of protein & fat. (shrimp, fish, superworms, etc) They were unlike anything that one would ever see in the wild waters of Sumatra or Borneo. But they were the biggest damn CL's that I have ever personally seen, and at this size certainly not a common sight in the hobby.
I'm not sure what your point is supposed to be? Like many members here on MFK I too have experience keeping CL's, and I'm quite familiar with their growth rates etc. In my case I not only had a large group, they were raised in a species only tank where I could really enjoy their behaviour when being the dominant and only species of fish in the tank. While not all CL's are hard wired to grow enormous, when you are importing wild specimens that are already 10 inches or better, that pretty much guarantees that if you keep them for long enough they will eventually exceed 12". CL's of this size are not as rare as some people think, they come up for sale out of Sumatra every season, where there is no size restriction on collection or export. (such as there is in Kalimantan) I show a photo of some recently imported 8-10" Sumatran CL's on page 2 of the following thread.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?491976-Clown-Loaches-Kalimantan-vs-Sumatra
You might find that an interesting read - outside of that article that I wrote you also won't find that information anywhere on google.
One last thing, l have seen a lot of large wild CL's imported over the years, and they are always shaped like a long skinny hot dog (just like the ones in the link above) - not big & chunky like those that one typically sees in older CL's that have been raised in capitivty. The 14" CL's that the store previously mentioned sold were all obese, not just chunky. They were raised in a large display tank with Asian arowana, and spent their entire time in captivity eating large amounts of protein & fat. (shrimp, fish, superworms, etc) They were unlike anything that one would ever see in the wild waters of Sumatra or Borneo. But they were the biggest damn CL's that I have ever personally seen, and at this size certainly not a common sight in the hobby.
there was a famous tropical fish shop in east london uk in the mid eighties. they a had an amazing male green festa which was huge. i would definately put it in the 20 inch mark. maybe it was more, not sure. it was the most stunning festa i ever saw. never seen any male festa on that level since. not sure what happened to it. the owners sold up a couple of years later.
there is a magazine in the uk called practical fishkeeping, i remember there was a pic of him when they covered the shop
there is a magazine in the uk called practical fishkeeping, i remember there was a pic of him when they covered the shop
