COLLUMNARIS / DUCK LIPS DISEASE

[Miguel]

I have been reading several stuff about this disease ( inclusively MFK threads that were pointed out to me ), since both my rescued midevils or midas have shown some swelling in their lower lips as described in another thread ) and it really is strange that this is disease i only was aware of in the last year or two.

And this after 40 odd years of fishkeeping.

Duane made the same point in another thread, with 50 years of fishkeeping...

Now suddendly, in the last, say 2 years, it pops out eveywhere, being diagnosed from the onset on most any case of swollen lips ( and most of the times rightly so ).

Was it always there? It is not as if duck lip aspect is non noticeable....?

How come, assuming my rescues have it, it appeared now and none other bull of mine is affected? Stress from introduction?

Is it in the fish or is the bacteria in the tank? And if so, are other fish immune or the mere fact of being non stressed ( as if there never is any stress in an amphilophus comm ...) is enough for them not to show the effects?

Is it a husbandry issue, now, after so many years?

Would love to know people's thoughts on this....

M

 

[haynchinook334]

Could it also be hereditary?


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[rich4297]

I would like to see some pics of this. I recently acquired some filament barbs and two of the three seem to have swollen lips. I've been trying to get a pic but they never stop moving so I haven't been able to. I put in salt it hasn't gotten worse but not better either. It hasn't seemed to spread to the cichlids yet. It's been a few weeks now so maybe this is not what it is.


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[Miguel]

I would like to see some pics of this. I recently acquired some filament barbs and two of the three seem to have swollen lips. I've been trying to get a pic but they never stop moving so I haven't been able to. I put in salt it hasn't gotten worse but not better either. It hasn't seemed to spread to the cichlids yet. It's been a few weeks now so maybe this is not what it is.


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I do not think it is the same. Check my thread in this subforum of yesterday..has some pixs

 

[RD.]

Miguel, Flavobacterium columnare is in the tank water, as are many strains of bacteria. They only tend to surface in fish when fish become stressed, which could be anything from water quality issues, to aggression from tank mates, and everything in between. Stress from being relocated, and introduced to a new environment with larger males could most definitely have been the trigger in this case. Some form of stress is almost always the trigger when disease surfaces. And as previously mentioned some of these bacteria thrive under certain conditions, in this case warmer water. It could have been something as simple as being introduced from an outside pond in warmer months.

FYI - this bacteria was first described in 1922, and is considered one of the oldest known diseases among warm water fish.

Do you remember when I was discussing septic tank bacteria the other day? There's another plus side to dosing with these types of bacteria (non pathogenic) beyond just consuming organics - it's called competitive exclusion.

http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Competitive_Exclusion

Competitive exclusion is a term used in aquariums to keep pathogenic (bad) bacteria in low levels in an aquarium or pond.

By adding known harmless waste eating bacteria in large numbers the added bacteria out competes any existing bad bacteria for the nutrients in the tank and therefore is a safe and effective way to starve off infectious bacteria. In the medical industry this technique is called 'bacterial interference' and is used to displace pathogens by using harmless bacteria.

This is a successful way for beginners to keep your fish healthy. In a new tank there will be virtually no bacteria to out-compete bad bacteria that may be in the fish's gut. So with micro-particles of fish food floating down to the substrate, the bacteria from the fish, ornaments and of course the aquarists hands are all a huge food source for bacteria and are able to grow with no competition from anything else.

By adding harmless bacteria from a commercial bottle in large quantities, you starve off the bad bacteria by sheer volume.

This method also reduces maintenance on your filter and helps keep the gravel cleaner as the bacteria consumes all decaying material and breaks down dead plant matter that would otherwise take weeks to breakdown. This method is commoningly used in human sewage treatment to break down human produced mulm.
This method is why having a soil based (Walstad) tank is so successful. The soil has tens of thousands of species, with billions upon billions of bacteria in it which keeps pathogenic bacteria levels very low.

I'm still in the early stages of experimentation on a few tanks, but the science behind what I am doing is very sound, and has been utilized in commercial aquatic applications for a number of years.

http://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=jfas.2012.72.103


Yet another product that Neil should be buying in bulk, private labeling & reselling to hobbyists for a small fortune. Wait, that's already being done!

http://www.petco.com/product/3263/Aquarium-Products-Freshwater-Biozyme.aspx

http://www.apifishcare.com/products/Product.aspx?ProductID=44

 

[Miguel]

Great post, Neill. Am also looking into those bacteriae we talked about the other day...

I accept an drecognize my ignorance of not knowing about this disease...but i have never had it in 40 years ( Duane in 50! ), not even in pixs and now everyone and their cousin has it, as one sees mely here, in MFK.....

 

[Miguel]

But Neill, what precise pro biotic are you experimenting on?

And are you feeding mixed with food?

And in terms of enzymes used for septhic treatments in waste water, wht would be the type you would put in the tank or sump?

 

[RD.]

Miguel ......... I have not personally experienced most of the disease found in aquatic systems, maybe us old dogs have just been lucky all these years?

Part of the problem with this particular bacterial disease is that there appears to be a number of different strains, and many people mistake all of them for fungus, as in mouth fungus, or mouth rot. So for many years, and even still today it is often misdiagnosed.

 

[RD.]

Miguel - I am using the following probiotic. http://septobac.com/ I believe one can only purchase it in Canada, but similar products should be available elsewhere. Just make sure that they are 100% organic, as in not containing any types of surfactants, perfumes, etc.

Most of these products contain bacteria from the Bacillus genus, as well as others. No need to feed them to the fish, fish have the ability to uptake via their gills. The rest of the bacterial action takes place in the tank itself.

 

[Miguel]

I found some bacillus containing probiotic here. Each packet contains 100 million colonizing bacteriae...

On another note, on the other thread we we discussing septic drains bacteriae,and Tom, ( aquanero ) mentioned a type of " house" product...do you remember what it was, by any chance?