were do white saum variant green terrors come from?

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As someone who has kept all of the above the temperament on the Stalsbergi is also different then the Saums. Granted male Saums can become glass bangers, the Stalsbergi I have found are a bit more aggressive and can hold their own with CA cichlids.

Now, while many here, and I myself have kept SA/CA community tanks there is a noticeable difference in aggression between CA and SA cichlids. Even though the Stalsbergi is an SA cichlid I would put the personality/temperament in the CA category. Also the Stalsbergi tend to top out a bit shorter then the Saums but are much more 'livelier' and enjoy their swimming room.

This is just my own opinion based on keeping them for several years. These fish are hands down my favorite fish and sadly I had to down size tanks and clean up some stock when I moved which resulted in me basically giving away my collection as I wanted to make sure they ended up in good hands.

Also I bought my Stalsbergi from Rapps.
 
I have owned Green Terrors (normal LFS variety) in the past and loved them. Just last week, I acquired Stalsbergi fry from Dan at COA. These guys ate immediately after acclimation, but have since been very skittish. That being said though, they are only 1".
 
CrimsonFog said:
I have owned Green Terrors (normal LFS variety) in the past and loved them. Just last week, I acquired Stalsbergi fry from Dan at COA. These guys ate immediately after acclimation, but have since been very skittish. That being said though, they are only 1".
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I've heard that in general Stalsbergi is more aggressive than the common False Green Terror(Aequinoctialis) as I've had friends who've kept both of them. Though I will also say that wild FGT's(Aequinoctialis) tend to be significantly more aggressive than their captive born counterparts. So the fact that most Stalsbergi available are usually wild caught maybe part of the reason they appear to be the more aggressive of the 2. Can I ask is the Stalsbergi you obtained wild or captive born? If wild caught juvenile cichlids in particular tend to be skittish in that vulnerable stage, probably a survival instinct that's more ingrained in wild caught just as a wild adult in my experience is generally more aggressive even one that was raised in captivity from a fairly young age.
 
Not counting angels and discus, Green Terror is likely the top 3 most popular CA/SA becasue of their beauty, relatively small size and mild temperament. When GT entered the trade two decades ago, it became an instant hit to the extent that other Aquidens species like Port cichlid and Blue Acara were becoming rare. Stalsbergi has its unique character, but I don't think it will ever catch up with the popularity of orange saum GT the same way barred Midas will never catch up with Red Midas.

Wild type Stalsbergi does have taller body than wild type orange saum GT. But body shape is very flexible with domestication and many domesticated orange saum, like domesticated Midas and JD, has tall body
 
koltsix said:
I've heard that in general Stalsbergi is more aggressive than the common False Green Terror(Aequinoctialis) as I've had friends who've kept both of them. Though I will also say that wild FGT's(Aequinoctialis) tend to be significantly more aggressive than their captive born counterparts. So the fact that most Stalsbergi available are usually wild caught maybe part of the reason they appear to be the more aggressive of the 2. Can I ask is the Stalsbergi you obtained wild or captive born? If wild caught juvenile cichlids in particular tend to be skittish in that vulnerable stage, probably a survival instinct that's more ingrained in wild caught just as a wild adult in my experience is generally more aggressive even one that was raised in captivity from a fairly young age.
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The ones that I have acquired at F1.
 
I've heard that too. Altum angels are more aggressive than domesticated angels, not neccessarily because they are of different species, but because Altum is wilder. The earliest description of GT was very aggressive. I found them only mildly aggressive probably becasue of the length of domestication. I have never come across skittish GT.

What does COA stand for where you got your Stalsbergi?
 
I got my Stalsbergi from Dan at Cichlids of the Americas (COA)

http://cichlidsoftheamericas.com/index.html

I think mine are skittish for 3 reasons, 1) still super young, 2) lots of flow in tank 3) tank is on a tiered rack and on the bottom. Every fish I have put in this tank has been this way until they get used to the shadows.

They are eating pretty good as I feed them 2-3 times day - so the skittish doesnt bother me - for now.

Anyone here have first hand experience with Stalsbergi growth rates? Compared to Rivulatus?
 
tiger15 said:
Not counting angels and discus, Green Terror is likely the top 3 most popular CA/SA becasue of their beauty, relatively small size and mild temperament. When GT entered the trade two decades ago, it became an instant hit to the extent that other Aquidens species like Port cichlid and Blue Acara were becoming rare. Stalsbergi has its unique character, but I don't think it will ever catch up with the popularity of orange saum GT the same way barred Midas will never catch up with Red Midas.

Wild type Stalsbergi does have taller body than wild type orange saum GT. But body shape is very flexible with domestication and many domesticated orange saum, like domesticated Midas and JD, has tall body
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barred midas are beautiful, way nicer than the other
 
koltsix said:
No problem I was hoping seeing them side by side would help in seeing the differences between the two. To be honest the articles regarding these guys http://cichlidnews.com/issues/2011jan/andinoacara.html such as this one can be quite confusing especially since Rivulatus was also used and the article writers kept switching back and forth between Rivulatus/Stalsbergi/Aequinoctialis/Gold Saum and White Saum making it difficult to follow. So I was hoping I put it simple enough to follow without having to reread as I did when I read the articles concerning these species. Since White/Silver Saum and Rivulatus was used with both species in the article and the only difference was time and introduction and then scientists revisiting who the real Rivulatus is I struggled to read them a little.
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I've seen (and even participated) in these green terror discussions before, but to date, that's my go to article regarding the current state of what the author himself (Wayne Leibel, who certainly has high credentials) calls the 'green terror complex'... which apparently says something about Dr. Leibel's opinion of whether there is one particular "true green terror".

In any case, imo the reason the article is confusing is a reflection of the fact that the history and status of these fish are confusing and are still not fully resolved, while different researchers have differing opinions on these fish and give them different names. As he says in the article, beyond the recently classified A. stalsbergi, some of this "awaits further research", which tells me that it's a little pointless for hobbyists to try and sort out what the experts themselves are still trying to figure out.

Only other thing I can add is that I've had wild white suam (non-Stalsbergi) green terrors before and mine were quite aggressive, much more than any of the tank raised green terrors I've had over the years. (On the other hand, I haven't always found wild fish to be more aggressive. I currently have some wild Peruvian scalare that are actually pretty mild, milder than the domestic silver angels I initially had them with, even though the wilds were twice the size of the domestics.)
 
my new gt white saum is sooo active, ive never had a fish that active and aggressive at such a young age, this little fish interests me so much
 
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