Ornatum keepers - I'd like to hear from you

[HerCrenVie]

I am getting a pair of ex-Cichlasoma ornatum this Thursday, and I'm taking the next couple of days to prep their tank (a mature, cycled setup) for their arrival. I want to hear from all you ornatum keepers - what pH do you keep yours at? Temperature? Tank layout, types of decor (rock or wood?)?

I suspect I have an idea of how to get them to spawn - soft, acidic, tannin-stained water with driftwood as the main decor and leaf litter above a sandy substrate. But then again, I have no idea what Colombian and Ecuadorian rivers are like. Does anyone have any information on their native habitat? Water parameters and etc.?

Thanks in advance, any input will be greatly appreciated (my way of reciprocating will be tons of photos of my ornatum, come Thursday).

 

[freebyrd]

I had better luck when the temp was low...I kept mine at 76-78F any higher and they turned yellow and sat at the bottom like they were too warm. They ate earthworms and krill and prawns the best I would feed them insects 2 times a week and massivore pellets between.

Sounds like your trying to go blackwater I'm not certain that's the type of environment they are from. I remember they came from somewhere in Columbia, I don't remember off the top of my head I'll try and see if I can find the book I wrote all the info I could find on the species

Start here
http://coastal.er.usgs.gov/coasts-colombia/pacific/sanjuan.html

 

[HerCrenVie]

I had better luck when the temp was low...I kept mine at 76-78F any higher and they turned yellow and sat at the bottom like they were too warm. They ate earthworms and krill and prawns the best I would feed them insects 2 times a week and massivore pellets between.

Sounds like your trying to go blackwater I'm not certain that's the type of environment they are from. I remember they came from somewhere in Columbia, I don't remember off the top of my head I'll try and see if I can find the book I wrote all the info I could find on the species

Start here
http://coastal.er.usgs.gov/coasts-colombia/pacific/sanjuan.html

Thanks, although the link you provided talks about the Rio San Juan river delta and not the freshwater parts of the river. I think we'd all be hard pressed to find any decent resources online on the subject (water parameters in the rivers in which ex-Cichlasoma ornatum is found), so I suppose I'll just have to employ trial and error with my fish.

The blackwater idea was just an educated guess, seeing as people haven't been able to spawn them in regular (I assume neutral-ish) water, surely the biggest alternative would be soft water, since I don't think it very likely that they would appreciate hard, alkaline water. They are certainly a riverine species, and to my knowledge, most Neotropical rivers are full of organic material that makes the water quite soft. Do you reckon it's worth a try?

 

[duanes]

I have seen a video of Mels ornatum spawning.
My guess is most people don't have the patience to wait for them mature enough to spawn, and why aquarium spawning reports are seemingly limited.
Mels appear to be around 14", my guess 3 years old.
Although many cichlids will spawn at a young age, and at a small size, some need age and maturity before being successful.
The rivers that flow west, are not the black water type of the Amazon and have alkalinity and pH similar to more northerly Central American waters.
They are also have a much shorter distance flowing down the western slope of the Andes, which seems to keep them cooler. This is why I'm keeping mine at temps in the low to mid 70s. I've only had mine for a few months, so my experience is limited, and why I did the research on the rivers temp and water parameters.

 

[fishman09]

I have seen a video of Mels ornatum spawning.
My guess is most people don't have the patience to wait for them mature enough to spawn, and why aquarium spawning reports are seemingly limited.
Mels appear to be around 14", my guess 3 years old.
Although many cichlids will spawn at a young age, and at a small size, some need age and maturity before being successful.
The rivers that flow west, are not the black water type of the Amazon and have alkalinity and pH similar to more northerly Central American waters.
They are also have a much shorter distance flowing down the western slope of the Andes, which seems to keep them cooler. This is why I'm keeping mine at temps in the low to mid 70s. I've only had mine for a few months, so my experience is limited, and why I did the research on the rivers temp and water parameters.

Mel's did go through what looked like spawning but nothing happened. I Believe his are more in the 15"+ range and are around 5 years in his care. Pretty sure he was the first in the US with ornatum. I completely agree that ornatum aren't a 6 months then spawn kind of fish. They are a many year project for only the most patient of keeper. Mel not getting a successful spawn in 5 years is what has me the most perplexed as I think of him in the elite level as far as keeping and breeding.

I do believe that some research needs to be done on spawning in the wild with ornatum as there is probably an environmental factor that has yet to be replicated in aquaria. There has to be a solid explanation as to why these are so different from other fish in the hobby when it comes to regular spawning.

My plan for the day I try ornatum is to get around 20 or so and throw them in a pond of excess of 1000 gallons and let them do there thing. Almost take a farming approach to them. I do believe that there has to be someone farm raising these as there seems to be such a steady flow of juveniles coming into the hobby being passed as true WC fish.

 

[Miguel]

As said, the rivers in the region ( i am only personnally acquainted to the Amazon and some linked rivers ) belong to 2 types, Black water and Brown , low visibility water.

The water chemistry is quite different, the black water having allmost no organics mixed as opposed to the brown water.

Both are low on PH, and both are low on hardness ( although i do not remember the difference ) I think Black Water has allmost no hardness.

Another thing that, logically, is very low, in these rivers ( mostly the black ones ) os the conductivity.

I would check with the Discus guys, if you want to go black water. A lot of them have the exact paramteres figured out....

 

[HerCrenVie]

As said, the rivers in the region ( i am only personnally acquainted to the Amazon and some linked rivers ) belong to 2 types, Black water and Brown , low visibility water.

The water chemistry is quite different, the black water having allmost no organics mixed as opposed to the brown water.

Both are low on PH, and both are low on hardness ( although i do not remember the difference ) I think Black Water has allmost no hardness.

Another thing that, logically, is very low, in these rivers ( mostly the black ones ) os the conductivity.

I would check with the Discus guys, if you want to go black water. A lot of them have the exact paramteres figured out....

The problem is, nobody seems to know which type of river this species occurs in, and so I don't know what direction to look at, in terms of setting up my tank for them.

 

[Miguel]

have you searched Fish base org?

 

[CrimsonFog]

I've only had mine since Christmas. I took the advice from Duanes and Rapps and keep them at 75-76 degrees. I don't think they care much about the pH as long as its stable. Mine are still 2-2.5" and they share a tank with Stalsbergi fry, which like the cooler waters as well. I have heard others say that dithers seemed to calm aggression.

How big is your pair going to be?

 

[Miguel]

With some exceptions ( please not flaming the mod ) i find most fish adapt to different PH as longmas stable, as Teejay puts it....