Incoming 2-3k pond project in my crawl space!!
- Thread starter necrocanis
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There's not really any damage i can cause. The pond will but under the house sitting on the ground. Not worried in the slightest. The floor sags cause it isnt braced across the span underneath. If i put a few upright braces under the house it will only help not hurt. Im mot remodeling the house or anuthing and the pond will be completely removable like it was never there.
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And here I already thought you were crazy because of your bed frame tank...way to go man
Lol now im starting to remember everything people were saying when i did the bed frame pond. People are gonna tell doom and gloom the whole time lol. With this one i am way less worried than with the bedframe build. Its ok the proof is in the pudding. This time there is pretty much nothing i could damage. Pond will be completely removable. Its a bare ground crawl space with a sump pump In the center. Worst case scenario the pond bursts for no apparent reason and a couple thousand gallons of water get pumped down the drain. I will be out a few hundred. Oh well its worth a shot for my pets.
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Excessive humidity around the subfloor??
I hate to say it, but I do agree that it's a pretty massive project to be undertaking in someone elses house. Without wanting to get too much in your personal details, if you've got the money to fund and maintain a 3000g heated outdoor pond now (can't imagine what the heating bill would be over winter!) wouldn't it be better sacrificing the project in the short term to get some money together to buy your own place where you can do as you please and build something far more permanent that can be enjoyed without having to crawl under your house? Sorry if it's not an option for whatever reason, just thought I'd throw the idea out there...
But on the idea itself, my personal thoughts are that it seems far from ideal. If you've got a bunch of massive fish that you absolutely can't bear to part with that need more space and it's your only option then I guess you've gotta make do with it, but I know I'd soon get tired of having to scramble under the house to check my fish and not even being able to stand upright next to the tank. And how ever you build it you'd want to be insulating it very well, I've got no idea what the climate is like there but in an uninsulated and draughty area like that I think even in a mild climate you'd be racking up a rather large power bill over winter.
Just my 2c, not trying to be a buzzkill either....
you better think twice before you put water in your crawl space you might have serious problems with mold. I have worked construction for twenty years unless you have a dehumidifier going you could have serious issues with mold threw out the first floor. Remediation is big bucks, so you better get renters Insurance GOOD LUCK and have a good ventilation system
Just put up another vapor barrier with heavy plastic underneath the floor boards like u would in a basement with tanks...no biggie
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Ok some people need to read a little more closely. This pond will have a lid. I have 0 evaporation almost in my 400 gal pond. Not worried about moisture at all at this point. Evaporation in a pond or tank is very easy to deal with if you have it covered then you won't have evaporation/moisture issues. I am kind of crazy when it comes to my fish if you haven't noticed. I will crawl under there any night to be with them. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. To each his own I guess. It's ok though I'm not worried. As far as heating it goes I'm not too worried. I'm not sure that I pointed out that this crawl space is ventilated to the first floor and is completely insulated all the way around.
So you know I don't take offense cause you guys don't know me or what I have done so far. I have kept outdoor heated ponds before. The key to doing it and doing it cheap is to first know what you are doing, and second insulation is your friend. If everything is insulated and buttoned up tight you won't lose very much heat at all. I kept a 350 gal pond outside about 8 winters ago. Fully insulated on top, bottom, and all sides excessively. I used a 350 watt heater to keep it at 82 F all winter long even when we had a really bad blizzard with temps -20 f. That heater barely ever even turned on. I didn't even notice an increase in the power bill at all. The 400 gal insulated pond that I call my bedstand has a single heater in it that maybe clicks on for 10 mins ever 4-6 hours this entire winter. It's pretty darn cold in my room in the winter. No moisture issues at all. Actually the opposite. Montana is very dry climate so my room was pretty much bone dry all winter. Dry air really sucks the moisture out of everything. My aquariums drop maybe 1" per week between water changes and the pond's level is always unchanged.
Thanks for your input though. I may not sound like it but I am taking all this into consideration before I ever even posted this thread. I didn't put up all ideas yet. This is still in the very infant stages right now as I have the real issues to work out still. Mainly making sure the pond is secure. That's what I am focused on. I will let all of you worry about moisture. I have delt with it for years and have never had a moisture issue because I always cover my ponds. I had 2k worth of ponds in my garage at my old house all heated to 82 F. One didn't have a lid, the two biggest did. 0 moisture issues. I know all to well what moisture is capable of. When my exwife smashed all my fish tanks and sent 500+ gals of water through the floor/subfloor it only took days before work began on it for it to buckle and the begining stages of mold to start.
I don't take offense to any of this just like with my last build where everyone was like oh no your floors will fall through, and oh no your walls will rot with all the humidity of 400 gals. If I hadn't thought this out I wouldn't be trying it. You're not talking to some teen kid that knows absolutely nothing about anything. I have been dealing with tanks and ponds for many years and the moisture that comes with them. The key is to make the moisture a nonissue. This will not be an uncovered pond. I'm not stupid enough to put 2k gals of water under a subfloor without making sure evaporation is kept minimal to nonexistant. Of course evaporation will occur, but the way I have the top designed it will just drip back into the pond. In a sense acting as a vapor barrier right over top of the pond. Plus I will be down there every day to monitor everything so first sign of anything going wrong I can scrap the whole thing. I'm not out to destroy anything that's not mine.
I'm not even worried about doing this, but still could be an option possibly. I don't really see the point since the vapor barrier is right on top of the pond. Thanks for a useful idea versus doom and gloom though lol. Maybe I will just get some liquid rubber and seal the subfloor for my landlord haha.
So yeah part of doing a build like this on MFK is hearing all the naysayers. Gives me a push to do it even more. This isn't my first rodeo. Just do like the people in the bed stand pond thread did and say you'll watch it fail so I can get on with this. So for the record thanks for all the worries about moisture. I have delt with it and it is a non issue.
Now for the real issue. Keeping the pond secure on a slope. I don't wish to alter the crawlspace as it is not mine. Any boards I put upright to brace the floor is just for peace of mind cause I don't like it sagging when I walk around. I will take these out when I move a few years from now. As stated before all the fuss over a non issue started I am curious of how much pressure rebar can hold when driven about 1.5'-2' into the ground. I don't have experience with this but it seems it may be my only option short of filling most of the space with sand bags. I kind of like the idea of just bracing the outer walls so that the floor will have a more natural uneven depth.
I will be adding in the filtration in stages. SInce the boards will all be very removable when I am able to get a place of my own again I can just take this pond up and go. So I kind of like the Idea I have for it so far.
Ideas on price so far
Liner $200 for a 15' x 20' liner
wood $100 for 40 2x4s
Of course costs will go up once I price out materials for heaters, filters, ect. But basically I could potentially create 2k gals of pond unheated for $300 lol.
So you know I don't take offense cause you guys don't know me or what I have done so far. I have kept outdoor heated ponds before. The key to doing it and doing it cheap is to first know what you are doing, and second insulation is your friend. If everything is insulated and buttoned up tight you won't lose very much heat at all. I kept a 350 gal pond outside about 8 winters ago. Fully insulated on top, bottom, and all sides excessively. I used a 350 watt heater to keep it at 82 F all winter long even when we had a really bad blizzard with temps -20 f. That heater barely ever even turned on. I didn't even notice an increase in the power bill at all. The 400 gal insulated pond that I call my bedstand has a single heater in it that maybe clicks on for 10 mins ever 4-6 hours this entire winter. It's pretty darn cold in my room in the winter. No moisture issues at all. Actually the opposite. Montana is very dry climate so my room was pretty much bone dry all winter. Dry air really sucks the moisture out of everything. My aquariums drop maybe 1" per week between water changes and the pond's level is always unchanged.
Thanks for your input though. I may not sound like it but I am taking all this into consideration before I ever even posted this thread. I didn't put up all ideas yet. This is still in the very infant stages right now as I have the real issues to work out still. Mainly making sure the pond is secure. That's what I am focused on. I will let all of you worry about moisture. I have delt with it for years and have never had a moisture issue because I always cover my ponds. I had 2k worth of ponds in my garage at my old house all heated to 82 F. One didn't have a lid, the two biggest did. 0 moisture issues. I know all to well what moisture is capable of. When my exwife smashed all my fish tanks and sent 500+ gals of water through the floor/subfloor it only took days before work began on it for it to buckle and the begining stages of mold to start.
I don't take offense to any of this just like with my last build where everyone was like oh no your floors will fall through, and oh no your walls will rot with all the humidity of 400 gals. If I hadn't thought this out I wouldn't be trying it. You're not talking to some teen kid that knows absolutely nothing about anything. I have been dealing with tanks and ponds for many years and the moisture that comes with them. The key is to make the moisture a nonissue. This will not be an uncovered pond. I'm not stupid enough to put 2k gals of water under a subfloor without making sure evaporation is kept minimal to nonexistant. Of course evaporation will occur, but the way I have the top designed it will just drip back into the pond. In a sense acting as a vapor barrier right over top of the pond. Plus I will be down there every day to monitor everything so first sign of anything going wrong I can scrap the whole thing. I'm not out to destroy anything that's not mine.
I'm not even worried about doing this, but still could be an option possibly. I don't really see the point since the vapor barrier is right on top of the pond. Thanks for a useful idea versus doom and gloom though lol. Maybe I will just get some liquid rubber and seal the subfloor for my landlord haha.
So yeah part of doing a build like this on MFK is hearing all the naysayers. Gives me a push to do it even more. This isn't my first rodeo. Just do like the people in the bed stand pond thread did and say you'll watch it fail so I can get on with this. So for the record thanks for all the worries about moisture. I have delt with it and it is a non issue.
Now for the real issue. Keeping the pond secure on a slope. I don't wish to alter the crawlspace as it is not mine. Any boards I put upright to brace the floor is just for peace of mind cause I don't like it sagging when I walk around. I will take these out when I move a few years from now. As stated before all the fuss over a non issue started I am curious of how much pressure rebar can hold when driven about 1.5'-2' into the ground. I don't have experience with this but it seems it may be my only option short of filling most of the space with sand bags. I kind of like the idea of just bracing the outer walls so that the floor will have a more natural uneven depth.
I will be adding in the filtration in stages. SInce the boards will all be very removable when I am able to get a place of my own again I can just take this pond up and go. So I kind of like the Idea I have for it so far.
Ideas on price so far
Liner $200 for a 15' x 20' liner
wood $100 for 40 2x4s
Of course costs will go up once I price out materials for heaters, filters, ect. But basically I could potentially create 2k gals of pond unheated for $300 lol.
Sounds like you've got it all under control really, and obviously I under-estimated how much heat you can retain with insulation.
As for dealing with the sloping dirt floor, I'm really not sure how much you can do without levelling it off. How sloped is it? Any pics of the space? Could you potentially carve footings and use something like treated house piles or cinder blocks to level the foundation for a timber base and sides? Your idea of sandbagging it would certainly be the simplest if you're not going too tall and don't mind carting that many sandbags under the house!
As for dealing with the sloping dirt floor, I'm really not sure how much you can do without levelling it off. How sloped is it? Any pics of the space? Could you potentially carve footings and use something like treated house piles or cinder blocks to level the foundation for a timber base and sides? Your idea of sandbagging it would certainly be the simplest if you're not going too tall and don't mind carting that many sandbags under the house!
Tnx I am planing something special for the lid too. It will be insulated, light weight and water tight.
The floor isn't extremely sloped. I will crawl down there tomorrow evening for pics as today was a pretty late day. The ground does have a plastic sheet down over top of it. I don't really want to dig down as I want to leave the house as untouched as possible. Not my place so like to leave things as I found it if not better. Sand bags was a quick idea but not popular lol. It may not take too many so will give it a better look tomorrow, take some pics and vid of the space so everyone can see the potential I saw down there. I guess if need be I could peel back the plastic liner level a spot for the tank then put it back down. Something I hadn't thought of. Hard work and sandbags ect they don't bother me. I spent years in the military getting dirty, and my whole life even when I was a chlid I will go anywhere and wait any amount of time to watch animals of all sizes. I have been the same about my fish also. I keep catfish and I really enjoy minimum lighting and feeding them at night although I do daytime feedings as well. I'm not really sure how many sandbags I would need maybe not very many. Will have to take a board down with me tomorrow to see just how uneven it is lol.
BTW your tank is gorgeous. Someday when I am better off I will build tanks that people will envy, but for now I will settle for getting my fish into the largest possible amount of water I can provide. I could go even bigger than this, but I figure with standard lumber sizes it will just be easier to stay this size.
As for insulation if you get the foam board insulation and encase it in a wooden frame as I have done several time it really holds the heat extremely well. The foam board also has plastic on both sides that adds even more to this insulating effects. I also then fill the edges of it with a spray in foam insulation, then enclose it with another piece of wood. I will not be doing that exactly with this build, but the insulation will help a lot. With ponds also not having a viewing window reduces the amount of heat loss greatly as well. Other people in my position would say they cannot house the fish. I refuse to give up. This is my passion. I may not have a lot of money, but where there's a will there's a way.
I may yet end up putting a vapor barrier on the subfloor or sealing it with something. I'm not worried about the moisture, but couldn't hurt I guess plus relatively cheap to do.
It will be insulated, light weight and water tight. The floor isn't extremely sloped. I will crawl down there tomorrow evening for pics as today was a pretty late day. The ground does have a plastic sheet down over top of it. I don't really want to dig down as I want to leave the house as untouched as possible. Not my place so like to leave things as I found it if not better. Sand bags was a quick idea but not popular lol. It may not take too many so will give it a better look tomorrow, take some pics and vid of the space so everyone can see the potential I saw down there. I guess if need be I could peel back the plastic liner level a spot for the tank then put it back down. Something I hadn't thought of. Hard work and sandbags ect they don't bother me. I spent years in the military getting dirty, and my whole life even when I was a chlid I will go anywhere and wait any amount of time to watch animals of all sizes. I have been the same about my fish also. I keep catfish and I really enjoy minimum lighting and feeding them at night although I do daytime feedings as well. I'm not really sure how many sandbags I would need maybe not very many. Will have to take a board down with me tomorrow to see just how uneven it is lol.
BTW your tank is gorgeous. Someday when I am better off I will build tanks that people will envy, but for now I will settle for getting my fish into the largest possible amount of water I can provide. I could go even bigger than this, but I figure with standard lumber sizes it will just be easier to stay this size.
As for insulation if you get the foam board insulation and encase it in a wooden frame as I have done several time it really holds the heat extremely well. The foam board also has plastic on both sides that adds even more to this insulating effects. I also then fill the edges of it with a spray in foam insulation, then enclose it with another piece of wood. I will not be doing that exactly with this build, but the insulation will help a lot. With ponds also not having a viewing window reduces the amount of heat loss greatly as well. Other people in my position would say they cannot house the fish. I refuse to give up. This is my passion. I may not have a lot of money, but where there's a will there's a way.
I may yet end up putting a vapor barrier on the subfloor or sealing it with something. I'm not worried about the moisture, but couldn't hurt I guess plus relatively cheap to do.
Thanks, third time round setting up my "dream tank", fingers crossed this time life doesn't get in the way and I'll be able to enjoy this for many years to come.
I guess if there isn't too much digging required then peeling back the plastic and levelling it out would be the best option, and I'm sure the landlord wouldn't be worried (or even notice!). Building a timber frame shaped to fit the unlevel ground would be more difficult, but not impossible, and have many advantages over the sandbag idea. I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with the lid!
