I have noticed w/ my bass and others that some species tend to get HITH easier than others. I had 3 orino's from 16-21". None of them had even the slightest issues. All the while my 2 azuls both had slight cases of hith @16+18". I have also seen occels w/ HITH as well as tems. I didnt run carbon in my tank and kept up on my wc's quite regular. Some species are definitely more suseptible to HITH than others.
HITH lATERAL LINE DISEASE IN CICHLA
- Thread starter HULON
- Start date
I absolutely agree, not speaking for all cichlids but certain species of bass are more prone to HITH, think about how almost all of the intermedia that were in aquaria had HITH no matter how well the tank was over filtered. Speaking of other species, I've read plenty of stories in the crenicichla forum about how some species were very susceptible to HITH and it couldn't be helped.....and it just so happens that like dogofwar said all of those species are blackwater species, so think that has something to do with it.
Remember, once your fish has been infected, it will always carry it! The protozoan that causes HITH and HLLE normally lives in the gut, and will invade other tissues when the fish is stressed (Nutrient deficiency? Fighting? Mating?). There is also another excellent article on this board that discusses it, and also a non-antibiotic treatment that will help reduce the load of it living in your tank (since it lives in the gut, it's shed in feces) and fish -- and it's cheap too! It's the magnesium in Epsom salts, and it works best if you can get them to eat it (pre-soak pellets in a 3% solution). 
I have actually used it to save a very very sick gold severum I was given.
Please read this CAREFULLY!! It is worth the time to improve the quality of life for your fish!! http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?339362-Treating-Hexamita-aka-Spironucleus
I have actually used it to save a very very sick gold severum I was given. Please read this CAREFULLY!! It is worth the time to improve the quality of life for your fish!! http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?339362-Treating-Hexamita-aka-Spironucleus
A couple of my bass had hith only one was real noticeable. I think it was a combination of water n stress. I have 2 fx5 on my 180. The bass that had it bad was my smallest he was a farmie Im sure. Had got him from Connies. I ended up using general cure and upped my water changes he eventually healed. my nitrates were high when i had checked my water. But since i have downsized. I got rid of 3 of my bass. Including the one that had hith bad.
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Hmm, if they are all blackwater species, I wonder if the pH of the water or the plant tannins are toxic to Spironucleus...
Well I guess I might have stirred this discussion, which I think is a good thing as it looks like it may have been under the radar as ken said.
This is my experience with HITH. When It started to show up on my mono @ 16" and my hybrid @ 17-18" I was very frustrated and felt like a failure to my bass. I then immediately started reading everything I could, and decided on the following plan. I increased my water changes drastically and then later installed a drip, I also started adding vita-chem to the Tilapia and prawns I was feeding and also started feeding them Massivore again as I had stopped as they got big because it was expensive. After doing all this the HITH had stopped and disappeared in about 3-6 months.
Still not sure to the route cause, maybe my nitrates as they went from 30ppm ish to 10-5ppm. I don't know if Thiaminase causing Thiamine deficiency causes it, conditions to the water, or the lack of Thiamine in the aquaria, I just tried to fix as much as I could. Ken and Hu have some of the most insane filtration, so I would think maybe the water has less to do with it than I thought, but maybe it truly is several things that could cause it. I would like to know more of what you guys are feeding including supplements and what percentage of water is changed weekly with your back-flushes?
I'm very happy that Hu called the problem out in this thread as I think it will help the cause. I was a little ignorant to how it was effecting more than I thought with some serous devoted keepers doing all they can to provide the best care to their cichla being effected.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...-IN-THE-HEAD-THIAMINASE-What-you-need-to-know!!!!!!
This is my experience with HITH. When It started to show up on my mono @ 16" and my hybrid @ 17-18" I was very frustrated and felt like a failure to my bass. I then immediately started reading everything I could, and decided on the following plan. I increased my water changes drastically and then later installed a drip, I also started adding vita-chem to the Tilapia and prawns I was feeding and also started feeding them Massivore again as I had stopped as they got big because it was expensive. After doing all this the HITH had stopped and disappeared in about 3-6 months.
Still not sure to the route cause, maybe my nitrates as they went from 30ppm ish to 10-5ppm. I don't know if Thiaminase causing Thiamine deficiency causes it, conditions to the water, or the lack of Thiamine in the aquaria, I just tried to fix as much as I could. Ken and Hu have some of the most insane filtration, so I would think maybe the water has less to do with it than I thought, but maybe it truly is several things that could cause it. I would like to know more of what you guys are feeding including supplements and what percentage of water is changed weekly with your back-flushes?
I'm very happy that Hu called the problem out in this thread as I think it will help the cause. I was a little ignorant to how it was effecting more than I thought with some serous devoted keepers doing all they can to provide the best care to their cichla being effected.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...-IN-THE-HEAD-THIAMINASE-What-you-need-to-know!!!!!!
I'd guess that it has more to do with fish from blackwater being more susceptible to spiro (and other pathogens) because conditions in most aquaria are outside of conditions to which they're adapted. Blackwater conditions are more than just low pH and dH...it's a hard-to-duplicate mix of chemicals (tannins, turpines, etc.). It's one of the reason that wild altum angels and others are difficult to adapt to captivity.
As an aside, I had great luck with S. daemon...literally for years...until the big pieces of driftwood I had in their tank stopped leaching tannins...and once some species start to go downhill...it's a fast deterioration...even when I added more tannins/driftwood.
I don't believe that carbon itself is to blame for HITH. There's no real evidence that I've seen. Carbon, though, absorbs and removes tannins and other chemicals from the water...and perhaps these chemicals are key for some species' health.
Here's an idea: aging water in vats with driftwood (and/or peat) for water changes vs. tap water.
Matt
As an aside, I had great luck with S. daemon...literally for years...until the big pieces of driftwood I had in their tank stopped leaching tannins...and once some species start to go downhill...it's a fast deterioration...even when I added more tannins/driftwood.
I don't believe that carbon itself is to blame for HITH. There's no real evidence that I've seen. Carbon, though, absorbs and removes tannins and other chemicals from the water...and perhaps these chemicals are key for some species' health.
Here's an idea: aging water in vats with driftwood (and/or peat) for water changes vs. tap water.
Matt
I have no experience with HITH for Cichla since Im new for keeping bass.
But sometimes I think you guys are weird about filtration. Lots of species of Peacock Bass have been introduced in lot of different places, with different water conditions..
Not saying they dont need a good filtration and water quality, but they showed that can addapt very well even to non black water environments..
Look how pinimas are in the ''optimum ecological condition'', and are reaching easily 5 kilograms mark or more in reservoirs that dont see a drop of water over 6 months, just concentrating chemicals and organic matter, making it quality even worst.
I worked with Oreochromis niloticus in university, and in the same tank (we used high densities), when we was going to do the biometry, we always found a few fish with HITH. Same food, same water quality for all the fish. The pH was around 8 wich is nice for an african cichlid.
In that time I though it was something like nutritive deficiency (you know some fish are slow to eat, and may not find food), or even genetic problem, but never asked my teacher about it. They were just discarded, and I never worried a lot about it, since theyre was being cultivated for food.
Just wanted to share this with you hoping to contribute for the discussion. And hope to figure out here whats the real reason for this HITH.
But sometimes I think you guys are weird about filtration. Lots of species of Peacock Bass have been introduced in lot of different places, with different water conditions..
Not saying they dont need a good filtration and water quality, but they showed that can addapt very well even to non black water environments..
Look how pinimas are in the ''optimum ecological condition'', and are reaching easily 5 kilograms mark or more in reservoirs that dont see a drop of water over 6 months, just concentrating chemicals and organic matter, making it quality even worst.
I worked with Oreochromis niloticus in university, and in the same tank (we used high densities), when we was going to do the biometry, we always found a few fish with HITH. Same food, same water quality for all the fish. The pH was around 8 wich is nice for an african cichlid.
In that time I though it was something like nutritive deficiency (you know some fish are slow to eat, and may not find food), or even genetic problem, but never asked my teacher about it. They were just discarded, and I never worried a lot about it, since theyre was being cultivated for food.
Just wanted to share this with you hoping to contribute for the discussion. And hope to figure out here whats the real reason for this HITH.
What were we discussing the other day?
"Too many keepers here that have monster cichla with out HITH to say they are susceptible to it. IMO it happens when something is off in their environment. Ken, Artty, Hu, G, Myself, and others have had or have 20"ish fish without it. Not "slating" him, this is a media section that we have an open forum to talk and learn why some big fish get it."
The obvious question Hu is has anything changed? Food, params, water change volume, bullying?
I'm sure you've considered these factors but just worth a mention...
I'm far from a Cichla expert like you guys but just from reading this thread, it seems a few of you that HAVE had HITH problems, have been feeding tilapia. Could there be a connection? Bass Guy said he was, then started pellets again and it seemed to have helped. Same with Hulon, he was feeding tilapia. ???
