Government regulations on large fish

[MonsterMinis]

Goldfish can live 20yrs +... not a valid argument for not keeping a pima.... I can argue most pets domestic and wild shouldn't be kept as most when properly cared for can reach 15yrs+ many reptiles and birds reaching lifespans similar or greater then humans as well...

However tank space/feeding is.

 

[oneyedfish]

Goldfish can live 20yrs +... not a valid argument for not keeping a pima.... I can argue most pets domestic and wild shouldn't be kept as most when properly cared for can reach 15yrs+ many reptiles and birds reaching lifespans similar or greater then humans as well...

However tank space/feeding is.

Oddball has a very valid argument. There is a huge (pun intended) difference between leaving behind a goldfish and leaving behind an adult pima.


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[ecoli73]

So many MonsterFishKeepers, so few MonsterFishTanks.

I'm going to take a guess here, but I am pretty confident that 95% of RTC's and Arapaima's sold in the U.S. have a 2 year or less mortality rate. Most are sold to little Johnny or Sally that just setup a "huge" 55G tank and the "look at my new cute little Redtail" thread is pretty quickly followed by "why did my RTC die?"


For those that are so passionate about not outlawing these truly enormous growing species, you really believe that your right to keep one supercedes the fact that 95 out of every 100 sold will suffer a slow death at the hands of irresponsible/ignorant people?

I'm all for banning Pima's, RTC's, Bumblebee Groupers etc. There are only a handful of people on this site that have the resources to care for these species, yet how many "look at my cute little RTC" threads pop up every day?

With such a huge mortality rate, I think government intervention is justified. If shops were more ethical and would "self regulate" then we wouldn't have this problem, but anyone who hasn't been living under a rock knows how self regulation turns out...especially when there are big profits to be made.


Question: How many of you who have posted here can keep a Pima or a Bumblebee Grouper for life?

Crickets?

I also venture to guess that 95% of most other fish die in less than 2 years in aquariums. We need to educate people how to keep fish, and not governments determining which fish should be kept.


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[David R]

So many MonsterFishKeepers, so few MonsterFishTanks.

I'm going to take a guess here, but I am pretty confident that 95% of RTC's and Arapaima's sold in the U.S. have a 2 year or less mortality rate. Most are sold to little Johnny or Sally that just setup a "huge" 55G tank and the "look at my new cute little Redtail" thread is pretty quickly followed by "why did my RTC die?"

I don't disagree with you there Alex, but the problem goes far beyond the true "monster" species. How many of the MILLIONS of clown loaches sold annually get anywhere near their potential 12" size and 20+ year lifespan? Silver arowana? Oscars? Common plecs? Silver sharks? If you start regulating who can buy what where does it stop?

IMO it shouldn't be up to governments to determine minimum aquarium sizes, nor to the LFS to play policeman (I would have been livid if they'd refused to sell me my black aro ~12 months ago because I only had a 400L tank!), but there should be similar protection laws extended to fish, reptiles and in fact to any living creature being held captive by humans, as there are for cats and dogs. If people were prosecuted for negligence/animal cruelty for inadequately housing fish as they are for mistreating a cat or dog then perhaps it would make people think twice before buying large-growing species. Hefty fines and confiscation, and life-long bans from owning animals for repeat offenders. It may seem like an 'ambulance at the bottom of the cliff' approach, but to me it seems far more practical and enforceable than trying to police who can and can't buy fish.

 

[MonsterMinis]

I don't disagree with you there Alex, but the problem goes far beyond the true "monster" species. How many of the MILLIONS of clown loaches sold annually get anywhere near their potential 12" size and 20+ year lifespan? Silver arowana? Oscars? Common plecs? Silver sharks? If you start regulating who can buy what where does it stop?

IMO it shouldn't be up to governments to determine minimum aquarium sizes, nor to the LFS to play policeman (I would have been livid if they'd refused to sell me my black aro ~12 months ago because I only had a 400L tank!), but there should be similar protection laws extended to fish, reptiles and in fact to any living creature being held captive by humans, as there are for cats and dogs. If people were prosecuted for negligence/animal cruelty for inadequately housing fish as they are for mistreating a cat or dog then perhaps it would make people think twice before buying large-growing species. Hefty fines and confiscation, and life-long bans from owning animals for repeat offenders. It may seem like an 'ambulance at the bottom of the cliff' approach, but to me it seems far more practical and enforceable than trying to police who can and can't buy fish.

My point exactly...

 

[Dr.Gonzo4]

People really just need to be educated. its ludicrous. my one friend is from the ghetto, he says to me yo you keep fish right and I said yes I do. He says

well my cousin spent like 300$ on like 6 fish 3 are saltwater and 3 are freshwater and there all in a 10 ga tank of untreated tapwater.

I immediatly told him to slap him and return them, which he says he did but I'm not sure because I'm not gonna travel to the ghetto to find out, and ***** at a kid who is more then likely armed.

**** like this needs to stop. more education on fishkeeping is a start on treating fish better in this country, not saying oh this 10 ga will be fine for a jack demspey for life then trying to sell it on craigslist when you don't want it anymore (saw a diff thread about that earlier)

there should be free pamphlets in every store and more educated shopkeeps. a lot of the bad things that happen to these fish are a result of misinformation on the sellers part. Big Box pet stores may be inherently evil when it comes to the local economy ( like walmart etc), but at least they have care sheets on all the fish for sale.

Seriously how many of us have seen a locally owned pet store with nothing describing the fish except its name written on the glass in magic marker and some vague knowledge?!
one local around here has RED TAILED CATS for sale like this. they told me 120 is a minimum ga size for them. :l

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[David R]

Education means nothing to people who don't give a ....

Values are more important than education, but how do you teach that and whose values? I'm sure all of use here are appalled by those little inflatable keyrings for sale in China with a live turtle or fish inside so we place a certain amount of value on the animals life. At the other extreme the hard core animal rights activists like PETA probably are appalled that we keep wild fish in captivity at all, regardless of how well they're cared for. And in between that is a huge grey area, which becomes blatantly obvious when ever there is a discussion regarding tank size for any species of fish.

It doesn't matter if people are educated enough to know that a goldfish can grow to a foot long and needs a big pond to thrive if they place little value on the life or well-being of the animal and are therefore content to keep it in an unfiltered bowl.

 

[Longshot]

Ethics and morals are sorely needed, not more government intervention into what your aquarium looks like.

The mustang program is a perfect example of government making a problem worse. If you have so much as a single piece of barbed wire in your fence, you are not allowed to "adopt" a mustang. I know because I know people that had to jump through the hoops and some that said screw it...meanwhile there was a report not long ago that federal officers were having to "thin the herd" because of overpopulation on one of the ranches. I'm not talking about the animal rights side but the problem of adding rigid legislation to a problem that requires flexibility. Government can't even solve the problems it started, why would anyone expect it to take on new ones and succeed?

Unfortunately, until there is a major shift in the mindset of individuals there will always be problems.

 

[E.C.]

There are some points that are given in this thread, but we're having a vacuum arguments, it goes on and on and on, just ravening around, it's because of there is no arena for the said argument, least the title isn't even clear about "large", and from what angle would you define a "large fish" and what "fish is large".

 

[MN_Rebel]

There are some points that are given in this thread, but we're having a vacuum arguments, it goes on and on and on, just ravening around, it's because of there is no arena for the said argument, least the title isn't even clear about "large", and from what angle would you define a "large fish" and what "fish is large".

Bingo! Many oscars, plecos, goldfish, piranhas and silver dollars are not monster-sized types like RTC or an adult pacu and yet they got dumped into the waters or just don't care for them.