Government regulations on large fish

[Jc1119]

Short answer, No.......it's kind of like saying "I will not, or choose not to do any research whatsoever about the fish I want to keep, so I'd rather pay a government run agency to tell me what I can or can't keep, and by the means I can keep it." That makes no sense to me at all......

Personal responsibility is something alot of folks just could care less about these days. In a day an age where I find it a challenge to NOT find internet or wifi or a hot spot, iPhones, tablets, etc, etc.........theres no excuse to not be able to research a fish, sometimes, on the spot. I do it all the time. I'll do 30 minutes of research standing in front of a species in question, at the store only to find I cant meet it's water temperature requirements and walk away...... What's the difference between keeping a large species in pristine water conditions in an undersized tank, or..... keeping a brackish species in a 5000 gallon freshwater pond,.... or keeping individual fish species that are known to be schoolers? Not much in 20 years if we let the government into our hobby.......

Sometimes No, is the right answer, and that comes down to the individual.

 

[Oddball]

I'm against any and all opportunities of the government making any of my decisions for me. Nowadays more and more people seem to be willing to allow the government to make all of their decisions for them. Whether through laziness or apathy or cowardice. I don't want the leash further tightened by telling me what other fish I can't keep. When I started in this hobby, there were no 'restricted lists' or permits required anywhere in the country. Now, it's passing ridiculous levels in the amount of government interference the population is getting used to. In reality, the US government has released more alien and invasive species than any hobbyist has. Largemouth bass and stripers in the Pacific coast to name a couple. And the press seems to be OK in reporting any single catch of an invasive as being the fault of fish keepers without mentioning the storm damage releases of tropical fish from numerous breeding facilities. My favorite is Cali banning the collection of native species when the recovery of said species could be enhanced by the recruitment of interested hobbyists to perform concentrated reproduction of the threatened species for repopulation of diminished areas. This type of regulated action had positive results in other states with nearly extinct populations of pupfish and sticklebacks.
So, rant over, I don't look forward to any additional regulation by Big Brother. Industry-wise, the consumers need to require a standard to which the true husbandry and sizes the larger species will require for life from all businesses selling tropical fish. This would be in the hopes that consumers will make correct purchase decisions based on true facts about the species. It won't work in every case but, should be sufficient for the majority of naive aquarium owners.

 

[Aquanero]

^ Amen to that! Enough is enough. Remember Peter Finch in Network "I'm sick and tried of it and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

 

[aldiaz33]

Still haven't heard from anyone who can keep a Pima or a Bumblebee Grouper for life.

I hear you guys in regards to the pitfalls of more government regulation/involvement, but leaving it up to individual choice is not working.

 

[Oddball]

Still haven't heard from anyone who can keep a Pima or a Bumblebee Grouper for life.

I hear you guys in regards to the pitfalls of more government regulation/involvement, but leaving it up to individual choice is not working.

Without proper information, a correct choice cannot be made by novice consumers. This is the basis of my argument for precise information being posted or offered by fish-selling businesses. When a 20gal owner is told by a percieved professional that his newly purchased oscar will now surpass the 5" mark. That consumer is left with the future problem of placing a fish that has outgrown his 20. I have to believe (or give up on the human race) that a much larger number of consumers would pass up on the oscar if they knew from the beginning that it would outgrow their ability to cofortably maintain it.

 

[Oddball]

Still haven't heard from anyone who can keep a Pima or a Bumblebee Grouper for life.

I currently have the ability of maintaining a couple of pimas for life. I would, however, have to pass on a BB grouper. It's size and DO requirements are beyond the means I'd wish to employ to keep this species.

 

[MonsterMinis]

Just because we can't doesn't me we should lack the right too.. and if you want exmples of what government does to a "exotic trade" Just look at whats happened to the reptile trade in the past 10yrs.

As oddball pointed out.. one of the reasons I am firmly against outlawing species is over the history of the exotic trade as a whole MANY species have been saved from extinction ( partly from the trade but also natural resource destruction ect) Because there where "pets" in the trade.. few but enough to kick-start the species back. When we as humans stop destroying their habitate/lakes/rivers/forests... ie dams removed...clearcutting for farm-land ect... non-sustainable harvesting...I will fully support making such fish illegal, When we start protecting them instead of defiling them. Humans are locusts.

As hobbyists supporting eachother and supporting that some fish just shouldn't be kept in captivity will keep them out of the trade as much as possible vs laws that won't work anyway. Will raise awareness.. and hopefully the importers/distributors/LFS owners see this and take moral accountability in some way. But they need to make money so they will import/distribute/sell what is in demand. legal or otherwise for some. HOw many article do we see of so and so getting caught importing Asian arrowana? keeping snakeheads? ect?... all it does is drive it underground... it's nieve to think it saves more lives.. because the sad reality is these fish then get put in compromising positions just to "Try" and make it into this country opposed to being shipped in a nice box w/ water w/ at least a small chance.

I would never in a million years own the gallons in fish tanks we do now if it wasn't for this community... I would have kept believing a lot of the lies that pervade this hobby.... imo each person that learns from this site their goldfish should not be in a bowl and upgrades... or their Oscar can not live for life in a 20gallon... or the 1" per gallon rule is not set in stone...ect... Is a Win for the trade. Wether they do better for their pet or not... If you think making laws to protect them will work.. go visit your local ASPCA... people will do what they do, right or wrong at the end. THe BEST we can do is educate them.. and hold them accountable for their positive and negative actions. I've been bitten by more small dogs, NEVER by one of the "big 5"

imo its narrow minded and stupid if we didn't look at what has happened good and bad to the rest of the pet industry as a result of federal/state involvement because it can and will apply to this hobby as well.

"Anyway, the proper study of man is anything but man; and the most improper job of any man, even saints (who at any rate were at least unwilling to take it on), is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity."

- J.R.R Tolkien

 

[aldiaz33]

Without proper information, a correct choice cannot be made by novice consumers. This is the basis of my argument for precise information being posted or offered by fish-selling businesses. When a 20gal owner is told by a percieved professional that his newly purchased oscar will now surpass the 5" mark. That consumer is left with the future problem of placing a fish that has outgrown his 20. I have to believe (or give up on the human race) that a much larger number of consumers would pass up on the oscar if they knew from the beginning that it would outgrow their ability to cofortably maintain it.

I agree with you here; proper information should lead to better decisions.

I currently have the ability of maintaining a couple of pimas for life. I would, however, have to pass on a BB grouper. It's size and DO requirements are beyond the means I'd wish to employ to keep this species.

I would love to see pics of this setup.

Currently being able to keep one is one thing, but a 20 year commitment is another. Life happens. Things come up and when they do, what do you do with an 8' fish? The lifespan of these species is yet another reason they are unsuitable for 99.99% of private hobbyists. They require the resources and longevity of an organization like a public aquarium.

I know I'm on the wrong site to be arguing for a ban, but I think a dialogue about what can be done to reduce the number of mistreated animals is needed. I like your idea about more accurate and consistent disclosure of the requirements for keeping these creatures. I think it's a good place to start.

An example of horrible information: Liveaquaria currently lists 1,000G as the minimum tank size for a Pima. That's an 8x8x2...nowhere near large enough. IMO, this is criminal.

 

[Chicxulub]

I agree with you here; proper information should lead to better decisions.



I would love to see pics of this setup.

Currently being able to keep one is one thing, but a 20 year commitment is another. Life happens. Things come up and when they do, what do you do with an 8' fish? The lifespan of these species is yet another reason they are unsuitable for 99.99% of private hobbyists. They require the resources and longevity of an organization like a public aquarium.

I know I'm on the wrong site to be arguing for a ban, but I think a dialogue about what can be done to reduce the number of mistreated animals is needed. I like your idea about more accurate and consistent disclosure of the requirements for keeping these creatures. I think it's a good place to start.

An example of horrible information: Liveaquaria currently lists 1,000G as the minimum tank size for a Pima. That's an 8x8x2...nowhere near large enough. IMO, this is criminal.

"The public has the right of regulating descents and all other conveyances of property and even of limiting the quantity and the uses of it."

-Benjamin Franklin.

My good man, you're proving my point that America has forgotten the very foundation that made her great.

 

[Oddball]

I should have said, I have the means of maintaining 2 pimas. However, I won't seek to keep pimas. I can house them for the rest of my life but, since they'll likely outlive me I won't keep them just to pass a huge burden on to someone else. My decision is based on the knowledge I have of this species. I have to believe that the majority of fish keepers would make the same decision provided they're afforded the opportunity of receiving the most accurate information available of the species they're interested in purchasing and maintaining.