This has been on my mind

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Interesting. :thumbsup:

I think it demonstrates there can be different experiences on this, possibly depending on species or how you raise them. For years, I did a good bit of Malawi breeding, up to a few years ago. Considering the generally promiscuous behavior of Malawi species the primary intervention on my part was to select top males or females from a group from which to raise fry and allow others to simply grow out for trade or sale. I kept them in various configurations, sometimes including extra females and juvie growouts in the same tank. Of any of the Malawi species I raised, size differences were basically random or I selected the biggest and best looking to breed in the first place, so not really a factor.

Before and since doing Africans, aside from my Kapampa fronts, I've done new worlds, mostly SA. Again, I haven't personally seen breeding affect growth in any consistent way. I'm not discounting anything in your experience, different species and possibly different circumstances. What I tend to do with SAs I'm interested in breeding is raise them as a group and when or if I get what looks like a good pair I may or may not separate the pair from the rest of the group in some fashion, though if I do I don't normally separate them to a tank to themselves.

Did this with my current red head geos. Nearing a year after I got the original group of fry, out of the original 20 a dominant pair had established itself. I left them in a tank with some wild angelfish, juvie guianacara, few tetras, etc. and put the rest in another tank, including some really nice males, but no particular pairs formed and I didn't see any spawning. The derecho storm last year had me with no power for 10 days and out of all my fish the only ones I had trouble with were the geos for whatever reason, leaving me my dominant pair in one tank and several extra females in another tank. All have grown since, but the non breeding females were all smaller than my breeding female and have remained that way... and they were in the larger tank, actually.

Pretty much the same story with other SAs I've raised and bred similarly, discus, severums, angelfish, geos, guianacara, rams, (I've kept other new worlds but not bred them). Pairs were usually two of the larger, more dominant fish in the group in the first place. Sometimes I've kept the whole group of whichever species together, sometimes not, but I didn't see the pairs slow down growing compared to others from the group either way. But these were mostly species you'd typically grow out as a group, maybe that's a factor.
 
Ok all... I have a little to say, then I have a couple questions. I owned a female Jag for about 6 months before I bought my male Jag to pair with her. Durring the first 6 months she was a beast to her other tank mates but she never cleared an area to spawn by herself. When I got the male she stayed aggressive and soon after they started spawning and had multiple spawns for me. Both where returns to the store so I had no clue on actual ages. She reached about 9" and he was about 14". I lost both due to a power outage last year(R.I.P. Rocky and Adrian)... It would have been 6 years that I owned them this year.

While keeping them I went through some tank mates... Some they felt comfortable breeding around and others not. Well there was one spawn I was really looking forward to, but she didn't feel comfortable I guess because the morning I thought it was going to happen I noticed eggs just falling out of her tube as she casually swam around.

Ok... So what I'm trying to understand is, did the eggs just fall out on ALL the spawns that she didn't have? If water conditions and everything is ideal for spawning but the female chooses not to, how does she turn off the egg producing organs in an aquarium where conditions are always right? When I ask this I'm more specifically talking about the female growouts that don't pair up and spawn... How can they choose to focus more on growing(obviously not saying they know what they are doing... Just saying) vs reproducing if the conditions to spawn are always present? Not trying to argue or spark back up a debate... Just trying to get a better understanding of what's going on when a female fish does not actually "spawn" and how that effects her growth.
 
They are able to reabsorb eggs when conditions dictate it. This is not unique to fish as it happens in birds and reptiles as well.
 
They are able to reabsorb eggs when conditions dictate it. This is not unique to fish as it happens in birds and reptiles as well.

Thank Modest you for answering. Well since that's true for all "non spawning" females... Then it would be safe to say no female that's breeding should be bigger than her sibbling from the same litter that's not breeding(which would be the common since thought). BUT how did Neutrino casually tell everyone that he has not had growth problems with his spawning females? If a sibbling that is not laying eggs is absorbing the eggs, wouldn't she eat less? There's got to be a balancing factor...

I guess what I'm getting at is in order for Neutrino's spawning females to out grow their sibblings, as I stated before... the 2 factors of genes and proper care where taken. It just suprises me that he's the only one that this has happened multiple times with different species...
 
Perhaps because neutrino cherry picked the strongest looking fish from the group as the main breeders. In that case genetics may have trumped everything else.

As previously stated, there are dozens of variables that one can factor into the equation.
 
Perhaps because neutrino cherry picked the strongest looking fish from the group as the main breeders. In that case genetics may have trumped everything else.

As previously stated, there are dozens of variables that one can factor into the equation.

The variables alone make this topic hard to discuss. Ok... And with that said I understand enough about this topic. Thanks
 
Perhaps because neutrino cherry picked the strongest looking fish from the group as the main breeders. In that case genetics may have trumped everything else.
That's basically true, tried to say that in a previous post. Except with the SAs I've bred it's not me that does the cherry picking, it's the fish themselves. In species that pair off to spawn, the fish themselves work this out if you let them, and with some species it's after quite a tussle between the prospective male and female as they test each other's fitness-- as in other animals, no doubt nature's way of ensuring the future health and success of a species.

Recent example is my guianacara, total chaos for maybe 20 minutes while the females fought it out chasing the largest male around. Then the 'winner' female did her determined best to kick butt on the largest male. After he stood up to her onslaughts for probably another 20-30 minutes, they started acting like a pair.

In any case, quite often the dominant spawning pair (or pairs) are also among the most robust and best looking from the group I originally grew out. So, yes, I assume there's a genetic advantage, which is part of the point I was trying to make and is one of the factors I believe is involved. An exception with fish I've kept is Cyphotilapia. Sometimes my best breeders have been from among those females which were already some of the smallest and slowest growing right from the start and all along before they ever reached spawning age. Not sure what that means, but they still reached a good size over time.

The main exception I recall (where I intervened) is when I bred eureka red jakes (Malawi). Already a line bred fish that I bred for several years and I was selectively breeding them for color and size.
 
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