Cutting rays stingers

[Zoodiver]

Most injuries that happen in the wild are caused by people stepping on rays covered in substrate
I don't think the tip of the barb would play any part in this kind of injury
This injury would happen by people stepping on the barb not the tip then the ray swimming off causing the razor edge of the barb to rip skin

Wouldn't it

I maybe totally wrong it wouldn't be the first time

Most injuries to people are from the tip. Having just a cut from the side is VERY rare. You are correct that people stepping on them (the disc or body) while buried is the primary cause of being stung. When this happens, the ray swings the tail sideways elevated just over the body level and will pierce the foot/ankle/leg with the tip of the barb.

I've been tagged more times that I wish to admit. I'm very familiar with the process.

 

[T1KARMANN]

Most injuries to people are from the tip. Having just a cut from the side is VERY rare. You are correct that people stepping on them (the disc or body) while buried is the primary cause of being stung. When this happens, the ray swings the tail sideways elevated just over the body level and will pierce the foot/ankle/leg with the tip of the barb.

I've been tagged more times that I wish to admit. I'm very familiar with the process.

I have never been tagged but if that's the best way to find out more info on the subject I think I would rather not know to much on the subject


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[Zoodiver]

There are lots of video, photographs and shared experiences floating around out there about rays and how they use the barbs. You don't have to be stung to know how it happens.

 

[T1KARMANN]

There are lots of video, photographs and shared experiences floating around out there about rays and how they use the barbs. You don't have to be stung to know how it happens.

Your right there is lots of info out there
I have read loads of stuff in the past on the subject

But they differ from my own experiences which should be taken on boad as much as the next mans

Just because one person gets stung by loads of rays doesn't mean everyone does

Just as a ray can be trained to have its barb trimmed maybe my rays have been trained to sting from the edge of the barb not the tip

Just as some dogs bite and others don't

I hate the way people think that I state my rays don't act the same as others that I must be telling lies

After owning my rays for 7 years + I have sat in front of my tank for long enough to know how they act


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[strollo22]

You ever stop to realize that everyone's opinion is different than yours, yet you still persist? I may not have ever owned a ray but that doesn't mean I should completely close my mind to anything people who know better than I have to say. ZooDiver's life pretty much revolves around aquatic life, yet because YOUR rays don't act the same as everyone else's, he must be wrong? I can't honestly understand how people could respect your opinions and the condescending, matter of factly way you choose to purvey them.


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[aquaman45]

The bottom line is this!

Evolution has provided nature with a whole host of different ways to protect themselves at times of threat or attack, in most of these cases the first response has to be a telling response,.. no second chances!!

So getting back to rays. The needle sharp point is there for a reason, its the first point of penetration, just like a dagger, the end is the most pointed part of the stinger (barb). So what we have here is a very effective tool that is not only sharp but also has numerous tiny teeth running along the length of it down both sides which point the opposite way(A reverse barb). Unlike a rattle Snake for instance or even a Tarantula which deliver the venom via a gland through a hollow tooth(hypodermic) these rays have the reverse barb instead, this is designed to penetrate as deep as possible and stay in the wound for as "long" as possible to allow the poisonous proteins from the stinger to mix with the aggressors blood supply....pure and simple.

Most people that get stung whilst keeping these fish in captivity only receive either a graze or unfortunately just get caught with the tip of the barb, still incredibly painful I'm told.
From what I have observed is these creatures are extremely quick and accurate when delivering a blow, only a fool would perform maintenance when a ray is buried beneath your hand, let common sense prevail, using a long safe instrument remove the stingray to a different area of the tank, a ray that is buried is at its most dangerous!!

 

[Zoodiver]

I don't want to discredit what you have personally seen in your rays. Almost all observation is very valid when it comes to understanding animal behavior. I don't think anyone is saying what you have seen is wrong.
I just wanted to expand on this part of your comments quickly.

....as a ray can be trained to have its barb trimmed maybe my rays have been trained to sting from the edge of the barb not the tip...

It's not a behavior shaping (training) issue. It's the physics involved in the motion of the tail. There is no sawing action associated with the barb edge, which would be needed if this is how the barb was developed for use. A direct side swipe from the barbs edge is not effective as defense. The motion in which the muscles move the tail is for a direct tip hit over the body of the ray, specifically over the back half of the body for a majority of the mid tail barbed benthic rays (which is a perfect design to protect the vital organs located there).

 

[davenmandy]

Feel bad for the OP, thread got kind of hi-jacked. I hope we can all agree that if it is a viable option it is better to leave the stingers be just like nature intended? Viable as in it's not hurting your fish, not a ray that is meant or desired to be handled, and you are not worried about getting stung once or twice in your ray-keeping career. Maybe it's just me but I don't like to mess with nature if I don't have to, stingers are their for a reason (you dont want your $1500 BD pregnant female getting killed by your common motoro male because she can't protect herself do you?), and I kind of equivocate it to removing a dog's teeth (muzzling), if he's aggressive around people definitely, if he's the friendliest dog in the world there is absolutely no need, just as there would be no point if it was a guard dog. I think the OP is doing the right thing in his circumstance, I hope he got at least some useful info from this thread pertaining to his situation, however the extra opinions on here are certainly something to learn from (I did).

 

[dxdx]

But they differ from my own experiences which should be taken on boad as much as the next mans

The problem here is you are drawing the wrong conclusions from what you see. What you are seeing is a stabbing motion that is not intended to harm, but warn.

I have seen the behavior you are describing with my female ray, but it is not sawing it is 'soft' stabbing multiple times as a warning. My female does it as a way to get the male off her. They may not do this in the wild since they could just swim away, but as Zoodiver said the tail is designed to stab and pierce. Just google pics of injuries, if you have read loads of stuff then you would see most if not all injuries are holes from stabbing.

Here's a good idea, press your hand down on the back of your ray and see what happens. Be sure to video it for us and report back!


And apologies to the OP for helping take this way off course...

 

[T1KARMANN]

The problem here is you are drawing the wrong conclusions from what you see. What you are seeing is a stabbing motion that is not intended to harm, but warn.

I have seen the behavior you are describing with my female ray, but it is not sawing it is 'soft' stabbing multiple times as a warning. My female does it as a way to get the male off her. They may not do this in the wild since they could just swim away, but as Zoodiver said the tail is designed to stab and pierce. Just google pics of injuries, if you have read loads of stuff then you would see most if not all injuries are holes from stabbing.

Here's a good idea, press your hand down on the back of your ray and see what happens. Be sure to video it for us and report back!


And apologies to the OP for helping take this way off course...

If it's just a warning why do some females get chewed to bits surely this deserves more than a warning

If you think I'm going to get stung just to prove a point you are crazy

It seams to me it's not just the tip of the barb that holds poison but the whole barb
Next time you remove a barb from the tank run your fingers along it you will get a sensation in your fingers
This tells me the whole barb is a weapon not just the tip

Look my rays have never lashed out at me or even flipped the tail vertical
This isn't to say I haven't seen it happen
Aquaman may remember years ago and I saw a motoro do it in the shop I was shocked as I had never seen this before even after years of keeping rays

Zoo said rays can be trained to have barbs cut safely but then 2-3 posts later he states he has been tagged loads of times.

At the end of the day rays are unpredictable be it flicking the tail to the side or over the back they should be treated with respect when you handle them

I have never been tagged a fact I'm proud of as it shows I give them the respect they deserved


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