How bad is Bichir fighting?
- Thread starter screaminleeman
- Start date
I did not intend to keep the Ornate in the 115 for life. My absolute longest thought in the grow out 115 for the LMB was until this April. The Bowfin likely moved in May.
I have raised dozens of Bowfins, LN Gars, Pickerels & have three 4" small mouths growing out in a tiny 55G. The Bleekeri Tilapia is full grown. I bred Nile Tilapia (Much larger than my Polleni, Bleekri or even my Butekoferi) in a 135G without a challenge.
I did view the sticky here on MFK and other places before buying the Weeksi, and the Lap was sold to me by the biggest LFS as a Palmas and not a lap. I fail to see how the 115 @ 18" wide will not home bichirs that max out less than the width of the aquarium.
The Datnoids I got within the first couple of months of fish keeping. (Most likely extremely close to my MFK join date). In maybe 100 years growing at their current rate, I might have to re-home them. Nah, I'll be long gone before these Indo Dats outgrow that tank!
Glad I decided to take the advise of the Moderators and ask a question since it had been SOO long since I posted.
So much for the massive sticky data that all pointed toward Bichirs being very social bottom dwelling fish that did not require a humungous footprint to home.
Would the 155 gallon be too small for a rosey red minnow? Just forget it. I doubt that I will be specifically asked back here by the Mods, just to get bashed once again.
Thanks for nothing.
I have raised dozens of Bowfins, LN Gars, Pickerels & have three 4" small mouths growing out in a tiny 55G. The Bleekeri Tilapia is full grown. I bred Nile Tilapia (Much larger than my Polleni, Bleekri or even my Butekoferi) in a 135G without a challenge.
I did view the sticky here on MFK and other places before buying the Weeksi, and the Lap was sold to me by the biggest LFS as a Palmas and not a lap. I fail to see how the 115 @ 18" wide will not home bichirs that max out less than the width of the aquarium.
The Datnoids I got within the first couple of months of fish keeping. (Most likely extremely close to my MFK join date). In maybe 100 years growing at their current rate, I might have to re-home them. Nah, I'll be long gone before these Indo Dats outgrow that tank!
Glad I decided to take the advise of the Moderators and ask a question since it had been SOO long since I posted.
So much for the massive sticky data that all pointed toward Bichirs being very social bottom dwelling fish that did not require a humungous footprint to home.
Would the 155 gallon be too small for a rosey red minnow? Just forget it. I doubt that I will be specifically asked back here by the Mods, just to get bashed once again.
Thanks for nothing.
You didnt really get bashed.. If the tank is too small, that could be the reason that theyr aggresive. People are telling you that you need a larger tank buddy
And as you said, its just a grow-out. If it where me, i'd conclude Theres a lack of Space, and get a larger tank, and if it keeps on going then i'd start thinking it was weird.
I do not see any bashing maybe you misinterpreted some of the posts but there is no bashing. We are trying to think of things that are causing the aggression and trying to give you out suggestions as to how to cure the aggression. None of us here are meaning to bash or make you feel any bad emotions. We are just giving you advice that we think will help you out. You don't by any means have to do anything we say or take any of the advice we have given we are just giving suggestions to help you. None of us are trying to bash you.
I don't think it was bashing, but I do empathize with your annoyance at the seemingly default "get a bigger tank" response. I have a feeling that you know when to move a fish that has gotten too big.
I would ask that you not give up on this thread just yet. I may be experiencing your exact situation in a few months when my new babies grow big enough to join the larger tank. I've had a sen. for a VERY long time, and he's somewhere over 10" at this point. I just recently went bichir crazy and bought a baby del. (who's a thick 3-4"), a baby ornate (a skinny 2-3"), as well as a baby albino sen (the runt of my bichirs). When I combine these fish in a few months, this thread may help prevent some of my frustration.
So if you don't mind, come on back, and just do what I do whenever i see the "tank is too small" : read the next post
I would ask that you not give up on this thread just yet. I may be experiencing your exact situation in a few months when my new babies grow big enough to join the larger tank. I've had a sen. for a VERY long time, and he's somewhere over 10" at this point. I just recently went bichir crazy and bought a baby del. (who's a thick 3-4"), a baby ornate (a skinny 2-3"), as well as a baby albino sen (the runt of my bichirs). When I combine these fish in a few months, this thread may help prevent some of my frustration.
So if you don't mind, come on back, and just do what I do whenever i see the "tank is too small" : read the next post
People are just offering you they're advice to try an help you with an issue your having. You have the potential for some monsters with the teugs. You already have 3 large bichirs in the tank as well as some ither decent sized fish, so adding 2 more could just cause you more trouble. Your gonna need to be open to the possibility that it is aggression due to the foot print being small and they're being territorial. If your not open to the possibility of an upgrade down the road then your probably not going to be able to add the teugs to the other bichirs with out causing even more aggression and trouble for yourself. Don't get frustrated by that, try and add more hiding areas for them to get away from each other so that they can each have their own territory. If that doesn't work your going to need to consider upgrading to a larger tank or rehoming them possibly. Take it for what it's worth This isn't bashing you, just giving my opinion as to what is best for your fish and the issues your having. Don't let people chase you off with their opinions when they're just trying to help. Like has been said in other posts, just skip on to the next post if you don't like what some one is saying. Good luck with the aggression however you go about trying to solve it hopefully it gets better
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Dang. I have never had that problem. I would have only thought that problems would only arise if the sizes between them were too large. Usually they are fairly peaceful but there are always exceptions.
Definitely not trying to give a default answer with "tank is too small". If you read his first post, his juvenile bichirs are 12-14", which implies he has lower jaws or maybe an ornate. Not species you could keep in a tank with a 75 gallon footprint.
OP - sorry, didn't mean to come off as bashing, just trying to help and the most easiest answer without truly knowing every detail like you do. So the obvious answer would be to get a larger tank.
I don't think it was bashing, but I do empathize with your annoyance at the seemingly default "get a bigger tank" response. I have a feeling that you know when to move a fish that has gotten too big.
I would ask that you not give up on this thread just yet. I may be experiencing your exact situation in a few months when my new babies grow big enough to join the larger tank. I've had a sen. for a VERY long time, and he's somewhere over 10" at this point. I just recently went bichir crazy and bought a baby del. (who's a thick 3-4"), a baby ornate (a skinny 2-3"), as well as a baby albino sen (the runt of my bichirs). When I combine these fish in a few months, this thread may help prevent some of my frustration.
So if you don't mind, come on back, and just do what I do whenever i see the "tank is too small" : read the next post
The good news is that I have yet to notice any fin or scale damage from any of the altercations. Ornate was placed into the 115 high as a precaution. It was in a different tank with two similar sized Bowfins, and I noticed a perfectly round mark (similar to a bowfin mouth sized hickey) on the Ornates underbelly, although I never witnessed either bowfin show aggression in the least toward the Ornate.
The Ornate healed within a month of transfer to the 115. It is slated to go into one of my 135's (Oscar tank) after the four 16+ " Bowfins are re-homed to larger Q T ponds, and then ultimately to my spring fed pond. (~ 150 diameter dredged to 15 feet over a decade ago.)
I never even considered housing the baby Truges with any of my adult bichirs.
Please take this advice with a grain of salt, dismiss half of what I am about to suggest, and make up your own story for the rest.
I faithfully read and follow the information in the Poly sticky section (Primer 1.0). These two excerpts are pasted directly from this sticky:
{Quote}
Care of young
Young bichirs in this example P.senegalus, As they
breed in captivity and are now being farm raised
and are the most readily available subjuvenile of
the bichirs and the cheapest ( $5-10) range
and they are incerdibly small when we buy them
2''-3'' is about normal .
This is how I raise them certainly there are other
ways. I use the step up system in other words
small fish small tank as it grows I move it up
to bigger tank. Its a three step process I use
they start off in a 10 gallon tank with the water
level reduced to about half the tanks volume
fine gravel or sand for the substrate and silk
plants for cover and to float in.I use a sponge filter At this stage
they are fed bloodworms and baby brine shrimp
chopped squid and very small silversides
I feed small portions a few times a day.This
isn't possible for many but try feeding morning
and again at night, between now and 7" they
are undergoing their greatest growth and are
hungry constantly
When they reach approx. 5'' i add a small
power filter and raise the water level to approx
2 inches under the trim frame.At this size they are
bigger foods small feeder, ghostshrimp,bloodworms
earthworms etc .They stay in this tank till 7-8'' at which point
I move them to a 20 gallon long for final growout
These steps allow the bichir room to exercise
but still small enough so its easy to find/catch
food. Of course if I get a bigger specime
5-6'' they would go into the 10 gallon then move
up to the 20 long this gives me time to watch
for any signs of illness. Remember many bichirs
are wild caught quarantine is a good habit to get into .
Tank size
Bichirs do not need a great deal of water depth in their tanks 8 to 12 inches is actually
sufficient for any of the species.The minimum tank size for a single small species of
bichir is a tank with a footprint of 36''x12''x16'' your standard 30 gallon tank.however
bigger is almost always better so if you're looking to primaraly house bichrs listed below are
some tank sizes to consider for the smaller species.
30 gallon 36''x12''x16'' (this is the minimum size for 1 smaller species bichir)
30 gallon Breeder 36x18x12''
33 gallon Long 48x13x12
40 Gallon Breeder 36x18x16
40 gallon Long 48x13x16
50 Gallon 36x18x18
75 Gallon 48x18x20
125 Gallon 72x18x22*See note
150 Gallon 72x18x28 *See note
for the bigger species
120 Gallon 48x24x24
180 Gallon 72x24x24
The above are fairly standard sized tanks and should be available thru your local stores
*note The difference here is in the depth of the tank 6'' unless you feel the need for the
extra depth the 125 is the better/cheaper choice.
{End Quote}
Hopefully this will at least put you in the right direction. Please prepare to have thicker skin that I looking for data on these creatures outside of the sticky section of the forum. Hopefully you can encourage better responses to the questions that we both have.
I will happily benefit as a lurker from any quality information that you can extract from the MFK community.
Best of luck!
