What are you feeding vieja's

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jaws7777

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Just curious what other members were feeding their viejas. I have been feeding my argentea and heterospilus mostly kelp pellets. Started mixing in nls and omega one pellets

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Mainly NLS with a small percentage of Omega One mixed in.....not just for my paratheraps, but for all my fish. I'm planning to order Omega One veggie pellet soon and incorporate that into the meal plan as well.
 
Since Vieja are primarily vegetarian in nature, and have evolved to process algae, fallen fruit, etc, I believe your first choices are very much in line with what would be a healthy diet.
 
It really depends on the "kelp pellets", and what they consist of. Most fish in the wild that consume large amounts of aquatic vegetation take in most of their protein/lipids from aquatic organisms that live within the algae. The following is an old quote from Ad Konings, regarding the herbivorous mbuna species found in Lake Malawi.

"although algae dominates the stomach contents of the majority of Mbuna, and they are considered herbivores, the foods that really make them grow are micro-organisms, insect nymphs & larvae, crustaceans, mites, snails, and zoo plankton, not vegetable materials at all.

And what Konings stated many years back is true, so simply feeding a fish in captivity a diet high in kelp, isn't going to be supplying it the type of nutrition that it would experience in the wild. In the wild most herbivorous species graze from sun up to sun down, which is not typically how they are fed in an aquarium, which is once or twice a day. So in captivity we need to supply a more well rounded, and more nutrient dense feed.

A study that was performed in 2001 by Dr. Ruth Francis-Floyd, Chris Tilghman, and RuthEllen Klinger from the University of Florida, shows just how important nutrient levels can be to certain species of fish kept in captivity. This particular study involved captive nutritional management of herbivorous reef fish using Surgeonfish as test subjects and were divided into 3 groups. The first Group was fed washed seaweed (ulva spp.). The second group was fed a commercially prepared all purpose type pellet food, and the third group was fed a commercial flake food that was supposedly designed specifically for herbivores.

At the end of the study, the ulva and flake fed groups suffered high mortality rates, (61%, and 39%), with the surviving fish showing clinical signs of malnourishment. Some had become emaciated to paper-thin condition. The second group (fed commercial pellets) performed the best, all fish gained steady weight, no deaths, and no apparent signs of any disease. The information from this study was made available during a lecture in 2001 at the Marine Ornamentals International Conference, held in Lake Buena Vista, Florida, and has also been published in "Marine Ornamental Species - Collection, Culture, and Conservation by James C. Cato, and Christopher L. Brown.

The seaweed diet - 39% of the test group exhibited extreme wasting, with 61% dieing before the end of the study.

The flake diet - Most fish gained weight, yet 27% came down with Hole in the Head/Head & Lateral Line Erosion Syndrome, 16% exhibited exopthalmia, corneal opacity, and apparent blindness, and 39% died before the end of the study.

The pellet diet - On average all of the pellet eating fish steadily gained weight, with no noticeable signs of disease, and no deaths.


Several years back I spoke with one of the professors involved in that study and while due to the politics involved she wouldn't go on record with regards to the commercial foods used, the pellet food used is the same pellet food that I currently feed my fish, all of my fish, including those classifed as herbivores. (NLS)
 
It really depends on the "kelp pellets", and what they consist of. Most fish in the wild that consume large amounts of aquatic vegetation take in most of their protein/lipids from aquatic organisms that live within the algae. The following is an old quote from Ad Konings, regarding the herbivorous mbuna species found in Lake Malawi.



And what Konings stated many years back is true, so simply feeding a fish in captivity a diet high in kelp, isn't going to be supplying it the type of nutrition that it would experience in the wild. In the wild most herbivorous species graze from sun up to sun down, which is not typically how they are fed in an aquarium, which is once or twice a day. So in captivity we need to supply a more well rounded, and more nutrient dense feed.

A study that was performed in 2001 by Dr. Ruth Francis-Floyd, Chris Tilghman, and RuthEllen Klinger from the University of Florida, shows just how important nutrient levels can be to certain species of fish kept in captivity. This particular study involved captive nutritional management of herbivorous reef fish using Surgeonfish as test subjects and were divided into 3 groups. The first Group was fed washed seaweed (ulva spp.). The second group was fed a commercially prepared all purpose type pellet food, and the third group was fed a commercial flake food that was supposedly designed specifically for herbivores.

At the end of the study, the ulva and flake fed groups suffered high mortality rates, (61%, and 39%), with the surviving fish showing clinical signs of malnourishment. Some had become emaciated to paper-thin condition. The second group (fed commercial pellets) performed the best, all fish gained steady weight, no deaths, and no apparent signs of any disease. The information from this study was made available during a lecture in 2001 at the Marine Ornamentals International Conference, held in Lake Buena Vista, Florida, and has also been published in "Marine Ornamental Species - Collection, Culture, and Conservation by James C. Cato, and Christopher L. Brown.

The seaweed diet - 39% of the test group exhibited extreme wasting, with 61% dieing before the end of the study.

The flake diet - Most fish gained weight, yet 27% came down with Hole in the Head/Head & Lateral Line Erosion Syndrome, 16% exhibited exopthalmia, corneal opacity, and apparent blindness, and 39% died before the end of the study.

The pellet diet - On average all of the pellet eating fish steadily gained weight, with no noticeable signs of disease, and no deaths.


Several years back I spoke with one of the professors involved in that study and while due to the politics involved she wouldn't go on record with regards to the commercial foods used, the pellet food used is the same pellet food that I currently feed my fish, all of my fish, including those classifed as herbivores. (NLS)

Great point. I love when alot of people unknowingly say, well they eat fruit and plant matter in the wild so obvious they live off the plant matter. Actually like you said, its the protein matter from organisms living on the plant matter! So I think a good staple pellet should be more then adequate.
 
Rd thanks for the info. I was thinking that the omega one kelp pellets would be a good staple also mixing in nls and regular omega one.
Ingredients for the kelp pellets
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Are they ok as a staple ? I was also gonna tey fresh lettuce but they are small around 2 inch or less.

Duanes what do you feed your guys

No fish food fights ! Lol. Just wanna give them whats best for their diet i am new to these fish
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Good post Neil! So many old schooler's love the mixed food diet. I have a Vieja, had Petrochromis and Preadators, so a wide rage of different Wild Diets, ONE good staple Pellet for all IMO is the best thing for your fish as that is what a good pellet is designed to do! I will name names :) NLS or what I now feed Northfin both giving my fish exactly what they need I would never use any other brands
 
I agree that your average high quality pellet will work well.
And a high content of protein is not in itself a problem, but it may be the lack of fibrous material that can cause stress. And as we have seen by many posts here in the disease section, stress is the major cause of disease.
Vieja and other vegetarians such as xCichlasoma bocourti and pearsei have evolved longer digestive tracts than those of a genus such as Parachromis, and these long tracts can process hard to digest fibrous material.
You would not feed pork chops to your horse, or a diet of string beans and potatoes to your cat.
But just because these are fish, is it OK to disregard eons of dietary evolution?
In summer (beside pellets) I feed my bocourti hair algae, and duckweed from the pond, and other very leafy foods. Winter I use high spirulina pellets
And in the hair algae, are many micro and macro animals that add to its protein content. But the bulk in comparison to animals, is algal fiber.

I see many posts of fish keepers with HITH and other stress induced diseases, and though attention to water quality (or lack there of) is probably the main cause, I also believe lack of attention to dietary needs can also be a cause of low level chronic stress.
Vieja maculcauda are known to congregate under trees with falling fruit, but also have been seen grazing marine algae in sea water. Is the content of iodine a factor in their amazing color development not seen in some aquarium specimens.
I tend to believe it is best to feed predators a slightly different diet than heribivores, and omnivores, and my herbivores do not look any worse for the practice (at least to me).

2 inch or less.
Duanes what do you feed your guys
 
Diet:
Morning and night: mix of jumbo carnisticks (just added), bio gold,staple and gold. (Hikari)
Every second to third day : frozen mix cichlid food or frozen brime shrimp. (ocean nutrition)
and i give him hikari algae wafers.
 
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