theory vs reality. i dont know which one to follow.

[Coryloach]

so this number is my tap real ph?

Yes. Its also hard to tell the difference between 7.2 and 7.4 so my guess is your tank and tap are the same. Doing a water change by pouring directly in the tank will have no negative impact to your fish. The CO2 will de-gass pretty fast, even while pouring the water in the tank. I help it a bit by making it splash while filling the tank. I've been doing it for years...

I am going to add some more useful info in the next post I've been compiling.

 

[Coryloach]

Additionally, if I assume based on your nitrate tests that your tank has produced between 60-100ppm of nitrates, that equates to 15-25ppm of ammonia produced in the tank in the first place!!!!

Let's use a simple mathematical calculation....

To reduce 1ppm ammonia to 0.0X ppm where X is a value below 5

Number of water back to back water changes @

70% - 3 water changes
50% - 4 water changes
40% - 6 water changes
25% - 14 water changes
20% - 19 water changes
10% - 29 water changes

To reduce 40 ppm nitrates to a 5 ppm level

70% - 2 water changes
50% - 3 water changes
40% - 4 water changes
25% - 7 water changes
20% - 9 water changes
10% - 19 water changes

In your scenario, to reduce 100 ppm nitrate to 40ppm

70% - 1 water changes
50% - 1.5 water changes
40% - 2 water changes
25% - 3 water changes
20% - 4 water changes
10% - 9 water changes

To reduce 160ppm to 40ppm

70% - 1.5 water changes
50% - 2 water changes
40% - 3 water changes
25% - 5 water changes
20% - 7 water changes
10% - 13 water changes

This is a video below from my small pond(not the best one but just serves the purpose). Pay special attention to the floating plants(salvinia) which is nitrogen deficient(old leaves yellowing and dying).
Using floating plants as a measure of available nitrogen is the easiest and most beneficial way. If your floating plants never reach the sorry state as below, your water is rich in nitrogen all the time....

If I don't dose nitrate in my tank, my floaters will eventually die...I do way too many water changes which does not help with the nitrogen demands of plants. But I also have emersed plants which outcompete the floaters for nitrogen...They are absolute nitrogen sponges..

If you keep your tank's water TDS very close to the tap, your plants will suffer. Providing yours has some nitrates, your plants will be a bit healthier(which is a good thing, you want your plants to be relatively healthy to actively keep growing, but not extremely healthy as its a sign of build up...I need to actually dose additional nitrates, and other ferts, due to my water change regime) But I still don't slack on water changes because there's other build up(TDS will tell) that needs removing, not just nitrogen compounds...

With all the lights on in the tank, water is normally crystal clear and smells sweet, good for fish, not so good for plant health but the combination between water changes and floating/emersed plants is a great way to maintain good water quality long term. You want to maintain the plants relatively healthy to keep them actively growing but not looking like they are out of a magazine.....

 

[giar]

Yes. Its also hard to tell the difference between 7.2 and 7.4 so my guess is your tank and tap are the same. Doing a water change by pouring directly in the tank will have no negative impact to your fish. The CO2 will de-gass pretty fast, even while pouring the water in the tank. I help it a bit by making it splash while filling the tank. I've been doing it for years...

I am going to add some more useful info in the next post I've been compiling.

for testing ph im using the digital ph testing kit tho.. mmmm ok , so the ph swing when adding tap water directly to the tank wont xause problems because the low ph is the result from co2? do i get it right? and then by having aeration and flow in the tank, the co2 will be gone, and the ph settle to its "true" ph, correct?.. if all of them correct that means i dont need to worry about leaving the tap 24hrs before wc, since i useseachem prime for the water conditioner..

as for nitrates yea i think i overstocked the fish and probably kinda overfeed it.. i will try to reduce the bioload and the feeding amount.. if i still have high nitrate after i do all the above after let say 1 month, what else can be done? thank you for your guidance!!

 

[Coryloach]

so the ph swing when adding tap water directly to the tank wont xause problems because the low ph is the result from co2? do i get it right? and then by having aeration and flow in the tank, the co2 will be gone, and the ph settle to its "true" ph, correct?.. if all of them correct that means i dont need to worry about leaving the tap 24hrs before wc, since i also seachem prime for the water conditioner..

Yes, exactly. Any shift from your "true" tap Ph is due to organics, overfeeding, etc...One should not let that happen as that's what causes the problem. Rock solid ph is what you want. So if your tap is 7.4, your tank should stay there...more water changes or/and less feeding/stock should sort it out.

 

[giar]

Additionally, if I assume based on your nitrate tests that your tank has produced between 60-100ppm of nitrates, that equates to 15-25ppm of ammonia produced in the tank in the first place!!!!

Let's use a simple mathematical calculation....

To reduce 1ppm ammonia to 0.0X ppm where X is a value below 5

Number of water back to back water changes @

70% - 3 water changes
50% - 4 water changes
40% - 6 water changes
25% - 14 water changes
20% - 19 water changes
10% - 29 water changes

To reduce 40 ppm nitrates to a 5 ppm level

70% - 2 water changes
50% - 3 water changes
40% - 4 water changes
25% - 7 water changes
20% - 9 water changes
10% - 19 water changes

In your scenario, to reduce 100 ppm nitrate to 40ppm

70% - 1 water changes
50% - 1.5 water changes
40% - 2 water changes
25% - 3 water changes
20% - 4 water changes
10% - 9 water changes

To reduce 160ppm to 40ppm

70% - 1.5 water changes
50% - 2 water changes
40% - 3 water changes
25% - 5 water changes
20% - 7 water changes
10% - 13 water changes

This is a video below from my small pond(not the best one but just serves the purpose). Pay special attention to the floating plants(salvinia) which is nitrogen deficient(old leaves yellowing and dying).
Using floating plants as a measure of available nitrogen is the easiest and most beneficial way. If your floating plants never reach the sorry state as below, your water is rich in nitrogen all the time....

If I don't dose nitrate in my tank, my floaters will eventually die...I do way too many water changes which does not help with the nitrogen demands of plants. But I also have emersed plants which outcompete the floaters for nitrogen...They are absolute nitrogen sponges..

If you keep your tank's water TDS very close to the tap, your plants will suffer. Providing yours has some nitrates, your plants will be a bit healthier(which is a good thing, you want your plants to be relatively healthy to actively keep growing, but not extremely healthy as its a sign of build up...I need to actually dose additional nitrates, and other ferts, due to my water change regime) But I still don't slack on water changes because there's other build up(TDS will tell) that needs removing, not just nitrogen compounds...

With all the lights on in the tank, water is normally crystal clear and smells sweet, good for fish, not so good for plant health but the combination between water changes and floating/emersed plants is a great way to maintain good water quality long term. You want to maintain the plants relatively healthy to keep them actively growing but not looking like they are out of a magazine.....

dayuuummnn!! ok.. since i just did my 40% wc maybe tomorrow i wil try to do 70% wc..

when you are saying back to back, is it like daily? or weekly?

 

[Coryloach]

when you are saying back to back, is it like daily? or weekly?

One after the other...Or at worst a day difference.

 

[Coryloach]

Just to add, fish are sensitive to a TDS change, not a Ph change. The TDS will not move regardless of the CO2 level or other gasses in the water. The TDS will increase quite a lot if your ph is moved down by excessive organic bioload and nitrification, decomposition byproducts

So in practice, a TDS meter is all you need. If it goes up to a point you can't mantain it the same as tap water via an average weekly 50% water change, you need more water changes and/or less fish/fish food, etc...

People that have never used a TDS meter but the old fashioned nitrate testing way of maintaining water quality, may find out the the TDS in their tank is double or treble the tap water, which is obviously very bad, deteriorated water. When one does a large water change on tanks like that, fish stress out. If they buy new fish, new fish dies. Owner thinks there's something wrong with their tap water...blames the ph difference...or water company....the fish shop for selling weak fish...

 

[giar]

C Coryloach

i just did 75% wc, the nitrate did drop but not significantly tho.. it is not as expected ..perhaps because my tap contains 40ppm nitrate? so i literally still dossing the tank with some nitrates.. in 2 days i will try to do another 75% wc and keep u updated

 

[Coryloach]

Nitrate tests are very unreliable. They won't give you a true reading. You can't test for nitrates accurately even in lab conditions so its hard to know really where you're at. In your case, I'd definitely get a TDS meter and go by that. When you level the tank with the tap, you've done enough water changes, it can't get better than the source water...

 

[The Mother Confessor]

Just to answer your question from earlier - I have a fair bit of experience with trying to find plants that large cichlids won't eat.

The ones below seem to taste bad to them, but some of my fish (especially my midas) will still bite chunks out of them occasionally, although not often enough to kill the plant.

Java fern:
Any variety, there's a few different types so you can get a varied look. It makes new plants quite frequently too. Tie it onto a rock or wood with fishing line, but be careful not to do it too tightly over the rhymizone or it will rot. Do not plant under the gravel or it will rot. Low tech.

Anubias:
Very slow growing but low tech. Many variety to chose from so again, you can get a few different varieties. The smaller types look neater than the taller large leafed ones, although that's of course just my opinion. Any variety is good except for nana - purely because that one is quite tricky to keep. Again tie it down, but not tightly over the rhymizone. Do not plant it under the gravel or it will rot. Low tech.

Amazon swords:
Great for nitrate munching and they grow very large. They look very nice when they get big. They may need tying to a stone with fishing line before planting to stop them being uprooted. The root system will spread very far and soak up any crap in the gravel and help to keep it rooted down. One matured, they are hard to pull up. I have mine attached to a sawn up bit of bogwood for extra weight. Medium tech.

Moss balls:
Mine only occasionally get pecked at, usually by a severums so you should be fine. They often get pushed around if they roll into someone's cave. It's quite amusing. Not overly effective at removing nitrates but every little helps. Very low tech.

Amazon Frogbit:
I never managed to keep it, because I have a group of Red Spot Severums who really love to eat it, but not many others do, so it may work for you.

Not recommended:
Any house plants disguised as aquatic plants (do a quick Google), and most cheap bunched plants with no roots, as you won't be able to fix them down easily, and most are very soft leafed and are fun for them to rip up and delicious to cichlids.

Don't lose hope for a planted tank with cichlids. I keep all the stock in my signature with the plants mentioned above. They look nice and help to soak up any excess nitrates, although, to get them to thrive in clean water (which hopefully yours will be eventually) you will need to dose with ferts. I also dose with Seachem Excell, as it helps the plants with co2 and also keeps Algae down.

I have 30-40ppm nitrates, phosphate, ammonium and god knows what else in my tap water, my area of the UK has the worst tap water in the whole country. It sucks.

After a water change, my nitrates go down very quickly to 0. A mature filter and plants will take care of the horrible water for you.