Catfish for my 220
- Thread starter Fish Tank Travis
- Start date
I only hope the write-up provides some useful pointers. A lot of it are subjective suppositions and opinions, so exercise reader beware
Now you see why I perk up when I hear of possibly a true lima and a possibility to learn about it. It "seems" exceedingly rare in the US. Our colleagues from Netherlands and UK report they see ~2' LSN not that exceedingly rarely, which may merely mean that Europeans keep their fish better and more responsibly, not necessarily that their "LSN" source differs... but the latter I can't discard for the moment.
I have come across hundreds of them and have kept dozens of them hoping to score a true lima. Never one over 10"-12". Currently have a school of 8 of 2-3-year olds at about 6"-7".
That'd be different from the "white dorado" / Pimelodus sp. pictured in that thread of mine. I need to look into it closer and find pics from Bluegrass. FWIW, I / we appear to have never seem a malarmo. They all turn out mucosus which maxes out at ~8" and was offered as a candidate for your consideration earlier on in the thread.
If you can it'd be nice and beneficial if you can find out all you can such as purchase sized, growth rate, feeding habit, temperament etc. and pictures to prove it of courselol
Agreed per above...
People who keep them like them. I like and agree (from my tiny experience with them) your description of the ornatus being close to pictus in behavior. In fact my two are in right now with 27 3"-4" pictus and do blend in despite being 1" larger
I'd say 5-7 is better 
I only hope the write-up provides some useful pointers. A lot of it are subjective suppositions and opinions, so exercise reader beware
Our colleagues from Netherlands and UK report they see ~2' LSN not that exceedingly rarely, which may merely mean that Europeans keep their fish better and more responsibly, not necessarily that their "LSN" source differs... but the latter I can't discard for the moment.
I have come across hundreds of them and have kept dozens of them hoping to score a true lima. Never one over 10"-12". Currently have a school of 8 of 2-3-year olds at about 6"-7".
That'd be different from the "white dorado" / Pimelodus sp. pictured in that thread of mine. I need to look into it closer and find pics from Bluegrass. FWIW, I / we appear to have never seem a malarmo. They all turn out mucosus which maxes out at ~8" and was offered as a candidate for your consideration earlier on in the thread.
Agreed per above...
People who keep them like them. I like and agree (from my tiny experience with them) your description of the ornatus being close to pictus in behavior. I'd say 5-7 is better
I should have clarified a bit about their similarities to the pictus. They tend to be a bit more active and social than the pictus, but they can be kept solo, or in a smaller group. They also get up to about 12" long, so I really think that four will probably my max for these guys because anymore and I think I will be severely overstocking my tank, although a group of 6-7 does sound nice, I don't think it's a good idea. They are also not very timid and don't dart around at extreme speeds like many other catfish do. Lastly, they are very good in a communal setting and do not get aggressive towards other fish, whether they be more catfish or other types. Because of all of this, I think they will be a pretty perfect fit for my aquarium.
Sounds sensible.
As for the overstocking, I am not worried about it. My thought was they rarely if ever get to 1' it appears in captivity and even if they did, it'd take them 5+ years, in which time I think you will graduate to a few 500-5000 gal tanks or ponds
I think in all the years I've only seen one photo (it was on MFK) where someone claimed their pair is 12". Try to find a photo with a proof and you will see it's impossible. But YOU can change it
As for the overstocking, I am not worried about it. My thought was they rarely if ever get to 1' it appears in captivity and even if they did, it'd take them 5+ years, in which time I think you will graduate to a few 500-5000 gal tanks or ponds
I think in all the years I've only seen one photo (it was on MFK) where someone claimed their pair is 12". Try to find a photo with a proof and you will see it's impossible. But YOU can change it
Ok, so the ornate pims are still one of my top options, but I would like to revisit the bolt cat and vulture cat options. I really just like the looks of those guys a bit more than the ornate pims.
If I were going with either the bolt or vulture cat, I would only be looking at a single inhabitant instead of a group like with the ornate pims.
My first choice would be the vulture cat. It seems that they have a range in max size from 14-18" or so. It seems that a lot of the bio information points to them being a bit aggressive but a lot of the first-hand info I found says that they are not aggressive towards their tankmates, unless tempted by a very sickly or injured tankmate, or become desperate out of extreme starvation. Therefore, it seems that one would be fine with my fire eels. I do worry about the size but if the fish I get ends up maxing out around the smaller end I think it would be fine. Of course, if it ends up being one of the larger individuals nearing 20" or so, I would rehome it, but certainly wouldn't hope to end up in that situation.
Next up is the bolt catfish. This seems to be a smaller, slimmer version of the vulture cat. The coloration is not quite as appealing, IMO, but very close. My concerns about the bolt cat are it's darting movements and aggression. I would be providing plenty of hiding places for both the catfish and the eels, so as long as that will keep the aggression from happening, I would think it shouldn't be a problem. The size of this guy seems to max out at about 12", so it should be ok size wise, but with its darting movements I do worry about a 220 not being large enough to keep it from banging into the walls of the tank.
I know from a message with TBTB that both of these catfish prefer currents, but I don't think my eels will have a problem with that. I'm currently running about 1600gph through my 220, and can turn it up a bit more if needed. My eels just like to hang out in some of the fake plants unless it's feeding time.
So, any advice or first-hand experience I can get regarding these guys would be great. I am really wanting to go with one of these two species, if at all possible.
One last thing, my eels are currently about 10-12" long, but they've been growing quite fast over the past few months in the 29, and I expect that they will probably speed up now that they are finally in the 220.
Thank you all!
If I were going with either the bolt or vulture cat, I would only be looking at a single inhabitant instead of a group like with the ornate pims.
My first choice would be the vulture cat. It seems that they have a range in max size from 14-18" or so. It seems that a lot of the bio information points to them being a bit aggressive but a lot of the first-hand info I found says that they are not aggressive towards their tankmates, unless tempted by a very sickly or injured tankmate, or become desperate out of extreme starvation. Therefore, it seems that one would be fine with my fire eels. I do worry about the size but if the fish I get ends up maxing out around the smaller end I think it would be fine. Of course, if it ends up being one of the larger individuals nearing 20" or so, I would rehome it, but certainly wouldn't hope to end up in that situation.
Next up is the bolt catfish. This seems to be a smaller, slimmer version of the vulture cat. The coloration is not quite as appealing, IMO, but very close. My concerns about the bolt cat are it's darting movements and aggression. I would be providing plenty of hiding places for both the catfish and the eels, so as long as that will keep the aggression from happening, I would think it shouldn't be a problem. The size of this guy seems to max out at about 12", so it should be ok size wise, but with its darting movements I do worry about a 220 not being large enough to keep it from banging into the walls of the tank.
I know from a message with TBTB that both of these catfish prefer currents, but I don't think my eels will have a problem with that. I'm currently running about 1600gph through my 220, and can turn it up a bit more if needed. My eels just like to hang out in some of the fake plants unless it's feeding time.
So, any advice or first-hand experience I can get regarding these guys would be great. I am really wanting to go with one of these two species, if at all possible.
One last thing, my eels are currently about 10-12" long, but they've been growing quite fast over the past few months in the 29, and I expect that they will probably speed up now that they are finally in the 220.
Thank you all!
FTT: My first choice would be the vulture cat. It seems that they have a range in max size from 14-18" or so. It seems that a lot of the bio information points to them being a bit aggressive but a lot of the first-hand info I found says that they are not aggressive towards their tankmates, unless tempted by a very sickly or injured tankmate, or become desperate out of extreme starvation. Therefore, it seems that one would be fine with my fire eels. I do worry about the size but if the fish I get ends up maxing out around the smaller end I think it would be fine. Of course, if it ends up being one of the larger individuals nearing 20" or so, I would rehome it, but certainly wouldn't hope to end up in that situation.
TBTB: IMHO you can forget about the 14". I've never seen a mature vulture this small, not that I am "I've seen it all" but I don't think this can be relied on at all, again IMHO, is all. I think you can bet your vulture will attain 18"-24" TL = total length. Among my six 2-year-olds, the two biggest are 20"+, two medium are ~18", two smallest are ~16".
So I'd think you either have to upgrade your tank to 500 gal like 8x2x2, which will set you back ~$2000-$2500 delivered (if acrylic), and then you can have several vultures, or forsake the vulture idea. On the other hand, in 220 gal you may have a few years, for sure 1.5-2 years before you will see that 220 gal is too small for an average-growing vulture.
Furthermore, vulture maxillary barbels are very long and an 18" vulture will cover 2' in the barbel span. When both barbels will be able to simultaneously touch front and back glass, it will feel trapped and will get nervous, skittish, etc. Not a healthy way to keep a fish.
FTT: Next up is the bolt catfish. This seems to be a smaller, slimmer version of the vulture cat. The coloration is not quite as appealing, IMO, but very close. My concerns about the bolt cat are it's darting movements and aggression. I would be providing plenty of hiding places for both the catfish and the eels, so as long as that will keep the aggression from happening, I would think it shouldn't be a problem. The size of this guy seems to max out at about 12", so it should be ok size wise, but with its darting movements I do worry about a 220 not being large enough to keep it from banging into the walls of the tank.
TBTB: I have been wrong before once or twice (sarcasm) but I'd not worry about the bolt's quick movements. They are not from skittishness but its nature, kind of the same as pictus, blochii, etc. It will not hit walls. Mine have not done it anyway. The aggression again I have not seen but I've not kept them with fire eels. They seem to not care about who their tank mates are.
Bolts are kept very rarely. In fact, no one comes to mind at all, now that I am straining my memory to even recall a tangible bolt account / thread. I do hope someone else will chime in but I'd not count on it. For every bolt it'd seem about 100+ vultures are kept so I'd expect more people to be able to help you out.
FTT: ... One last thing, my eels are currently about 10-12" long, but they've been growing quite fast over the past few months in the 29, and I expect that they will probably speed up now that they are finally in the 220.
TBTB: It can vary but in general fire eels don't grow fast. I've got 5 black spot, 2 tire track, and two fire eels Summer - Fall 2015, all at about 10"-12". Lost one black (at 21") and one fire (at 10"). Today the 4 black spotted ones and 2 tire tracks are ~2'. The remaining fire eel is about 14"-15". In fact my experience with the fire eels has been pretty miserable - I've tried them 3 times (all around 12") before this time and each time I couldn't get them to eat anything but live ghost shrimp. This last one is the only survivor from my cruel experiments with the fire eels. Spotted and tire track eels I've never had a problem with, they eat a lot of foods. Fires are so exceedingly picky! The survivor would only eat thawed bloodworms for a long time before eventually agreeing to take cut fish. The one that perished along its side, wouldn't have any prepped foods.
Perhaps my fire eel thumb is not there altogether...
Anyhow, sorry, long story short, IDK how vulture or bolt would be with a 10-12" fire eel. From what I have seen, I'd predict the eels would be safe but I'd not be blown away if I was wrong.
TBTB: IMHO you can forget about the 14". I've never seen a mature vulture this small, not that I am "I've seen it all" but I don't think this can be relied on at all, again IMHO, is all. I think you can bet your vulture will attain 18"-24" TL = total length. Among my six 2-year-olds, the two biggest are 20"+, two medium are ~18", two smallest are ~16".
So I'd think you either have to upgrade your tank to 500 gal like 8x2x2, which will set you back ~$2000-$2500 delivered (if acrylic), and then you can have several vultures, or forsake the vulture idea. On the other hand, in 220 gal you may have a few years, for sure 1.5-2 years before you will see that 220 gal is too small for an average-growing vulture.
Furthermore, vulture maxillary barbels are very long and an 18" vulture will cover 2' in the barbel span. When both barbels will be able to simultaneously touch front and back glass, it will feel trapped and will get nervous, skittish, etc. Not a healthy way to keep a fish.
FTT: Next up is the bolt catfish. This seems to be a smaller, slimmer version of the vulture cat. The coloration is not quite as appealing, IMO, but very close. My concerns about the bolt cat are it's darting movements and aggression. I would be providing plenty of hiding places for both the catfish and the eels, so as long as that will keep the aggression from happening, I would think it shouldn't be a problem. The size of this guy seems to max out at about 12", so it should be ok size wise, but with its darting movements I do worry about a 220 not being large enough to keep it from banging into the walls of the tank.
TBTB: I have been wrong before once or twice (sarcasm) but I'd not worry about the bolt's quick movements. They are not from skittishness but its nature, kind of the same as pictus, blochii, etc. It will not hit walls. Mine have not done it anyway. The aggression again I have not seen but I've not kept them with fire eels. They seem to not care about who their tank mates are.
Bolts are kept very rarely. In fact, no one comes to mind at all, now that I am straining my memory to even recall a tangible bolt account / thread. I do hope someone else will chime in but I'd not count on it. For every bolt it'd seem about 100+ vultures are kept so I'd expect more people to be able to help you out.
FTT: ... One last thing, my eels are currently about 10-12" long, but they've been growing quite fast over the past few months in the 29, and I expect that they will probably speed up now that they are finally in the 220.
TBTB: It can vary but in general fire eels don't grow fast. I've got 5 black spot, 2 tire track, and two fire eels Summer - Fall 2015, all at about 10"-12". Lost one black (at 21") and one fire (at 10"). Today the 4 black spotted ones and 2 tire tracks are ~2'. The remaining fire eel is about 14"-15". In fact my experience with the fire eels has been pretty miserable - I've tried them 3 times (all around 12") before this time and each time I couldn't get them to eat anything but live ghost shrimp. This last one is the only survivor from my cruel experiments with the fire eels. Spotted and tire track eels I've never had a problem with, they eat a lot of foods. Fires are so exceedingly picky! The survivor would only eat thawed bloodworms for a long time before eventually agreeing to take cut fish. The one that perished along its side, wouldn't have any prepped foods.
Perhaps my fire eel thumb is not there altogether...
Anyhow, sorry, long story short, IDK how vulture or bolt would be with a 10-12" fire eel. From what I have seen, I'd predict the eels would be safe but I'd not be blown away if I was wrong.
Thanks very much for the response. I definitely won't be upgrading anytime soon, if ever, so I think the vulture cat is out. I do think I would like to get a bolt cat instead of the ornate pims though. I think it will be better for my bioload anyway. But, I have been known to change my mind. Lol
As far as fire eels, mine are similarly picky. The only thing they've consistently eaten has been frozen bloodworms. Before I moved them, they were eating red wigglers pretty regularly. However, after moving them they started refusing those again. I am currently in the middle of fasting them for a week and then trying some red wigglers after that. If all I can ever get them to eat is some sort of earthworm and frozen bloodworms, I'll be ok with that. They can definitely pack the bloodworms away. Lol. I do think I am going to try to get my hands on some frozen or live black worms to see if they will go for those because they have higher protein content.
I'd agree with TBTB on no vulture, but of course it is your decision at the end of the day whether you be responsible or not. As for the bolt, they aren't rare, but rarely kept and reported. From what I've read I don't think it'd pose ,ugh of a threat but don't quote me one that
