Serious Aggression issues with large catfish.

[thebiggerthebetter]

Hey man, sorry, I am missing out on another one of your great threads. I've read the prior thread in which you reported the confirmed size of your L. pictus with much interest, just haven't gotten time to respond yet. It's been on my mind to do so.

In general my trio of L. pictus don't bother any tank mates but only fuss among themselves. Moreover, my experience with about 6-7 large L. pictus (1.5'-2'+) agrees with yours that they are (IME invariably) gentle and peaceful with tank mates. Utterly non-predatory too.

So what you describe is an exception and I must agree that the spawning behavior might as well explain it all. The water changes you did with lots of fresh incoming water, the temp drop are the classic tricks that mimic the rainy season to get fish in the mood to spawn, plus this is about the right time of year too. Increased aggressiveness is a classic symptom of a fish about to spawn too.

I've never heard of L. pictus spawning in captivity, not that I looked for it, just never came across. This makes it interesting. I am also interested to see what our L. pictus nut-in-residence V victor448 has to say about this. He's got to know the most of us all about L. pictus.

Everything you describe, before, during, and after, fits this explanation. What looks like white poop could indeed be spoiled and deflated eggs, the majority of which must have been consumed by the RTC.

Also any fish becomes a super greedy feeder shortly before the spawn. Production of eggs and milt requires vast energy and bio material. If your pictus had been insatiable all of a sudden shortly before all this, it would also agree with the explanation given.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Hey man, sorry, I am missing out on another one of your great threads. I've read the prior thread in which you reported the confirmed size of your L. pictus with much interest, just haven't gotten time to respond yet. It's been on my mind to do so.

In general my trio of L. pictus don't bother any tank mates but only fuss among themselves. Moreover, my experience with about 6-7 large L. pictus (1.5'-2'+) agrees with yours that they are (IME invariably) gentle and peaceful with tank mates. Utterly non-predatory too.

So what you describe is an exception and I must agree that the spawning behavior might as well explain it all. The water changes you did with lots of fresh incoming water, the temp drop are the classic tricks that mimic the rainy season to get fish in the mood to spawn, plus this is about the right time of year too. Increased aggressiveness is a classic symptom of a fish about to spawn too.

I've never heard of L. pictus spawning in captivity, not that I looked for it, just never came across. This makes it interesting. I am also interested to see what our L. pictus nut-in-residence V victor448 has to say about this. He's got to know the most of us all about L. pictus.

Everything you describe, before, during, and after, fits this explanation. What looks like white poop could indeed be spoiled and deflated eggs, the majority of which must have been consumed by the RTC.

Also any fish becomes a super greedy feeder shortly before the spawn. Production of eggs and milt requires vast energy and bio material. If your pictus had been insatiable all of a sudden shortly before all this, it would also agree with the explanation given.

 

[Rpul]

Hey man, sorry, I am missing out on another one of your great threads. I've read the prior thread in which you reported the confirmed size of your L. pictus with much interest, just haven't gotten time to respond yet. It's been on my mind to do so.

In general my trio of L. pictus don't bother any tank mates but only fuss among themselves. Moreover, my experience with about 6-7 large L. pictus (1.5'-2'+) agrees with yours that they are (IME invariably) gentle and peaceful with tank mates. Utterly non-predatory too.

So what you describe is an exception and I must agree that the spawning behavior might as well explain it all. The water changes you did with lots of fresh incoming water, the temp drop are the classic tricks that mimic the rainy season to get fish in the mood to spawn, plus this is about the right time of year too. Increased aggressiveness is a classic symptom of a fish about to spawn too.

I've never heard of L. pictus spawning in captivity, not that I looked for it, just never came across. This makes it interesting. I am also interested to see what our L. pictus nut-in-residence V victor448 has to say about this. He's got to know the most of us all about L. pictus.

Everything you describe, before, during, and after, fits this explanation. What looks like white poop could indeed be spoiled and deflated eggs, the majority of which must have been consumed by the RTC.

Also any fish becomes a super greedy feeder shortly before the spawn. Production of eggs and milt requires vast energy and bio material. If your pictus had been insatiable all of a sudden shortly before all this, it would also agree with the explanation given.

Hi bud.

I was hoping you'd share some input in to this matter.

I'd actually shown a sample to richard Hardwick of wharf. Who's knowledge is some of the best ive known. After looking at them, he's said pretty much the same as you. The old spoils of eggs can happen with some large catfish, although uncommon, it dose happen.

She's seens to have settled now, the water changes are less frequent as the pond had recycled itself again. She's slowly calming back down now. Still not a fan of the Redtail that much, but much better then she was.

She's also gone ravenous for food again, as she didn't eat for almost 3 weeks.

I'm just glad she's settled down and is doing well once again. Defiantly a learning curve for me that was.

Was almost a shame I didn't have a male l.pictus. If that would of gone successful, it could of got rather interesting. But Let's not get to carried away, haha.

Cheers for all the input guys.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Hi bud.

I was hoping you'd share some input in to this matter.

I'd actually shown a sample to richard Hardwick of wharf. Who's knowledge is some of the best ive known. After looking at them, he's said pretty much the same as you. The old spoils of eggs can happen with some large catfish, although uncommon, it dose happen.

She's seens to have settled now, the water changes are less frequent as the pond had recycled itself again. She's slowly calming back down now. Still not a fan of the Redtail that much, but much better then she was.

She's also gone ravenous for food again, as she didn't eat for almost 3 weeks.

I'm just glad she's settled down and is doing well once again. Defiantly a learning curve for me that was.

Was almost a shame I didn't have a male l.pictus. If that would of gone successful, it could of got rather interesting. But Let's not get to carried away, haha.

Cheers for all the input guys.

Glad things are improving. That's a remarkable pictus specimen you got there. IMHO, rather unique for its size, for what we know of pictus in captivity.

Right, I should have stated better about the feeding before the spawn. Fish go on heavy feeding during egg / milt production but then during the spawning migration and courtship, they stop feeding. So that could match what you reported as well that she was not eating in the weeks prior to spawning.

So you're in UK? I was wondering. It'd be nice if you added it to your stats so people see it if they need to. $0.02

 

[Rpul]

Glad things are improving. That's a remarkable pictus specimen you got there. IMHO, rather unique for its size, for what we know of pictus in captivity.

Right, I should have stated better about the feeding before the spawn. Fish go on heavy feeding during egg / milt production but then during the spawning migration and courtship, they stop feeding. So that could match what you reported as well that she was not eating in the weeks prior to spawning.

So you're in UK? I was wondering. It'd be nice if you added it to your stats so people see it if they need to. $0.02

She is quite unusual, I remember when I saw her listing online "30"+ l.pictus" I was expecting a 2ft fish. Although, I was gobsmacked when I arrived and saw the size of her. She's had a insanly deep body aswell and with her fin up I bet she's not far off 12" deep. . I'll get some pictures with the tape over her length and girth, when I move her into the new tank. (If she behaves providing).

She actually looks like she's still growing, although. I'll have to see when I remove her, before I can confirm this.

I will be trying to dig the information about where she came from, she's a wild caught fish which arrived with 3 others around 2-3" at wharf 3 years ago. (To my knowledge that was the amount that arrived in). I shall try to find out some more information if its possible.

But I'm told that one of the other ones that came in with her has grown to around the same size. (A mate of the owners has said fish)

What she has been feed all her life is salmon, prawns and carnivore and cichlid pellets.

I've also noticed her spot are huge compared to any other pictus ive seen and you can still clearly see her strip. She is also quite light grey/brown in colour. Most pictures ive seen of adult are usually black?

yes, I'm in the uk - Shropshire area.
I'll try to update it bud.

Thanks again.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

That could be very good genes. Hard to say of course but it'd appear like that. My trio is the same age as your fish or older, ~3-4 years old but all are about 2' if not slightly under which makes them 1.5x smaller than yours length wise.

Yes, the adults lose most of the attractive juvi coloration. A lot of factors play into the adult colors. Some are better, some are worse in terms of remnants of the prior pattern but overall they are just remnants.

Mood, comfort level, gender, tank size and setup, tank mates, lighting, substrate color, diet, water chemistry, time of year, water temp, age, etc. all play a role in coloration as well as the parental genes - a huge unknown.

 

[Rpul]

That could be very good genes. Hard to say of course but it'd appear like that. My trio is the same age as your fish or older, ~3-4 years old but all are about 2' if not slightly under which makes them 1.5x smaller than yours length wise.

Yes, the adults lose most of the attractive juvi coloration. A lot of factors play into the adult colors. Some are better, some are worse in terms of remnants of the prior pattern but overall they are just remnants.

Mood, comfort level, gender, tank size and setup, tank mates, lighting, substrate color, diet, water chemistry, time of year, water temp, age, etc. all play a role in coloration as well as the parental genes - a huge unknown.

I guess there just like people, everyone is different.

I will not look into it that much then, if there is that many factors on the colouration side.

There's a hell of a lot of different on yours size wise to mine. Are they rescues that could have possibley stunted. Or have you had them from small?
In the expanse of water you have, you'd expect them to reach full potential.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

I guess there just like people, everyone is different.

I will not look into it that much then, if there is that many factors on the colouration side.

There's a hell of a lot of different on yours size wise to mine. Are they rescues that could have possibley stunted. Or have you had them from small?
In the expanse of water you have, you'd expect them to reach full potential.

They are like you said like people in that some don't stop at 7' and some stop at 5'.

Yes I bought them small. They are not rescues. BTW, I noted a difference IME in the pictus supply. They used to be only available at ~1' for years but something appears to have changed in the last 1-2 years - they started to show up even as small as 6"-8", no tiny ones though, no 2"-3", the size that many other fish are available at.

If anyone knows or recalls different, please correct me.

I also noted that some pictus hybrids resurfaced again, such as pictus x RTC and pictus x TSN hybrid catfish, which may mean that the South American farmers (or maybe SE Asian this time?) are playing with them again. The first time it happened was a decade ago. They may farm a small quantity of pictus for their lab experiments and we might be getting some pictus as culls from that operation.

Overall though, IDK. These are but my thoughts, probably doesn't mean anything or may provide some food for further thought and observation.

Also, I didn't mean to steer you away from finding out more about pictus coloration. Again, I only offered my thoughts and inclinations but must say I love when others do their research and share their finding with all. Makes communal learning a million times easier and more enjoyable for everyone.