Take a look at this flow rate chart. I THINK it's accurate for a pipe draining water at full siphon.
New tank with sump is noisy.
- Thread starter eddiegunks
- Start date
I feel embarrassed, but could you please clarify how this chart should be read
That makes 2 of us... head height in inches ? And the flow increases as head increases ? I have to be reading this wrong
I'm sure we are, but the chart labeling and isn't intuitive as a whole. No offense to BA.
jaws7777 said:
I'm certainly no expert on sumps but that seems right to me. More head height means greater pressure so the flow rate will be higher. An example would be comparing the flowrate of a gravel vac/siphon at different heights exiting the tank. The lower it is the faster the flowrate.
Gentlemen --
Below is a link to the original source of the flow rates shown in that chart. They were posted to reefcentral.com by Beanimal....yes, the one that the overflow system is named after.
This chart shows ENORMOUS flow rates for various sizes of pipe draining water at full siphon. Some of the posters in the linked thread find the rates hard to believe, then they get around to thinking that the limiting factor in drain sizing is the turbulent flow through the E-drains.
This whole drain rate of PVC is kinda hard to get solid numbers for, and Beanimal explains why in the thread. So use the 2 charts in THIS thread, the one Jaws posted, and the second one I posted, to get a range of flow rates for whatever size pipe you're considering for your setup. Then....be sure that your E-Drains will handle a worst case scenario, like complete clog of your gate valve that completely closes off your siphon drains.
You'll also notice in Beanimal's thread that one of the posters recommends pipe size based on pump size used and drain size used on a setup that works for others--uncleof6 in post #12, because he "hates math". That works, too.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1814606
Finally, here's another chart showing drain rate of a Pipe.
https://flexpvc.com/Reference/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml
So, Jaws' chart shows a 2 inch line drains at 2200 GPH. The chart at flexpvc.com shows a 2 inch pipe, gravity to low pressure, drains at a rate of 3300 GPH. Then Beanimals chart shows that a 2 inch Schedule 40 PVC run of pipe 12 inch high will drain water at a rate of 4931, or 4191 if multiply that by .85 as Beanimal suggests.
So, 2200 GPH, 3300GPH and full siphon drain rate of 4191. When I built my tank, I used 2400 GPH pump, that actually output 2000 GPH because of head height. That 2000 GPH was less than the lowest value of 2200 GPH, so I chose 2 inch pipe.
THEN, I asked 3 people on MFK if they thought 2 inch drains would cut it, and all 3 said they had used smaller drains for roughly the same pump output. So I KNEW 2 inches would work. That's what I have on my tank now, and it's plenty of drain.
So, look at some charts and make some guesses, then check your guesses with someone who's done it before. Once everyone agrees with your answer, order a tank.
It's that simple.
Below is a link to the original source of the flow rates shown in that chart. They were posted to reefcentral.com by Beanimal....yes, the one that the overflow system is named after.
This chart shows ENORMOUS flow rates for various sizes of pipe draining water at full siphon. Some of the posters in the linked thread find the rates hard to believe, then they get around to thinking that the limiting factor in drain sizing is the turbulent flow through the E-drains.
This whole drain rate of PVC is kinda hard to get solid numbers for, and Beanimal explains why in the thread. So use the 2 charts in THIS thread, the one Jaws posted, and the second one I posted, to get a range of flow rates for whatever size pipe you're considering for your setup. Then....be sure that your E-Drains will handle a worst case scenario, like complete clog of your gate valve that completely closes off your siphon drains.
You'll also notice in Beanimal's thread that one of the posters recommends pipe size based on pump size used and drain size used on a setup that works for others--uncleof6 in post #12, because he "hates math". That works, too.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1814606
Finally, here's another chart showing drain rate of a Pipe.
https://flexpvc.com/Reference/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml
So, Jaws' chart shows a 2 inch line drains at 2200 GPH. The chart at flexpvc.com shows a 2 inch pipe, gravity to low pressure, drains at a rate of 3300 GPH. Then Beanimals chart shows that a 2 inch Schedule 40 PVC run of pipe 12 inch high will drain water at a rate of 4931, or 4191 if multiply that by .85 as Beanimal suggests.
So, 2200 GPH, 3300GPH and full siphon drain rate of 4191. When I built my tank, I used 2400 GPH pump, that actually output 2000 GPH because of head height. That 2000 GPH was less than the lowest value of 2200 GPH, so I chose 2 inch pipe.
THEN, I asked 3 people on MFK if they thought 2 inch drains would cut it, and all 3 said they had used smaller drains for roughly the same pump output. So I KNEW 2 inches would work. That's what I have on my tank now, and it's plenty of drain.
So, look at some charts and make some guesses, then check your guesses with someone who's done it before. Once everyone agrees with your answer, order a tank.
It's that simple.
That's pretty much it. This chart is drain rate. Farther the distance water falls to get back into the sump from the display tank, it builds up more speed falling, and pulls water into the drain at the top faster and faster.
It's the opposite of a pump curve, where a pump is working against the head height. In this chart, head height HELPS.
Thanks for taking the time to respond ragin. I was aware of the originator of the chart. BA, in my post = Bean Animal ;-)
What you have confirmed and what I've always thought is that there are generally accepted guestimates that get close enough to what you need. Im sure it also doesnt account for all variable specific to tanks that may or may not effect drain.
Given the Herbie or BA I think the charts showing full siphon helps balance out the pure gravity fed charts.
What you have confirmed and what I've always thought is that there are generally accepted guestimates that get close enough to what you need. Im sure it also doesnt account for all variable specific to tanks that may or may not effect drain.
Given the Herbie or BA I think the charts showing full siphon helps balance out the pure gravity fed charts.
ragin_cajun
thx fpr explain bud. I feel like allot of these threads (me included) dont give enough attention to what the e drain can handle...its almost an after thought