Are we keeping our cichlids too warm!

[Jhay3513]

After reading Oh, Island in the sun BEFORE I invested my time and energy into Haitiensis I knew i was going to have to keep my fish in higher temperatures. That tank sits between 82-84° in the winter and 84-86° in the summer. Knowing what I know about oxygen deprivation in a warmer aquarium I set my aquarium up for heavy oxygenation in both the sump and display. I have an inclination that som people just don’t do waterchanges. I was in a few facebook groups a few years back that suggested not doing WC’s or cleaning canister filters. And people swearing that their canisters would be spotless after 3-6 months of use. That’s bad advice if I’ve ever seen it and I diligently do huge water changes on my tanks once/week. My haits are healthy and I haven’t seen any of the common bloat problems. With google at our fingertips there is no excuse not to at least attempt to find information that will lead to a better life for our pets!!!!!

 

[NW Cichlid Keith]

Perhaps I'm missing the message, are we lowering temps to save on the power bill, or are we lowering temps to create a healthier environment for our fish? In some cases we clearly can't have both.

Some members apparently liked the quoted post above by Keith, yet from my perspective this is exactly what one should NOT be doing. Chromobotia macracanthus, is a tropical species of fish that originates from inland swamps, streams, and rivers in Indonesia on the islands of Sumatra and Borneo. Using info gleaned from studies conducted on the Musi River in Sumatra (Legendre et al 2012) prior to the rainy season the average river temperature is 86-89.6 F. Optimum temperature for egg incubation (during the rainy season) is 78.8 F. (Baras et al 2012) Colder than 75.2, or warmer than 82.4 dramatically lowers hatching rates, and increases the rate of deformities. Clown loach eggs have a narrow thermal tolerance range in comparison to other tropical and temperate fishes. How well this species can adapt or tolerate less than ideal temperatures (or temps outside their normal range) as adults found in the wild, are no doubt wider than eggs and larvae, but still.....

So 68-72 is certainly not ideal, or the norm in the wild for this species, and may in fact be stressful to the fish. I would definitely not lower the temp to the mid 60's.


I'm all for creating a healthy environment for our fish, and I think that everyone should take the time to research the species that they keep, and what their normal seasonal temperature ranges are in the wild. If while a person is creating that environment they get lucky and can save on the hydro bill at the same time, it should be considered a bonus.

I’m certainly not taking the cheap way out - I overkill to provide the best for my Fish. What I have seen is that heaters are really getting crappy (even the expensive ones) and I have had some bad accidents with them sticking. I’ve also noticed that the recommended wattage is way overstated - especially in a covered or larger tank. As such, I scaled the wattage down, and in tanks with cold sensitive fish have gone to two small heaters. I’ve also seen on the web a lot of heaters blowing up, which scares me to death. For that reason, I’ve been keeping the basement warmer, scaling back on the need for heaters, and seriously taking a look at cool water Fish. I’ve also taken a look at mixed tanks - clown loaches being the example discussed. I have seen first hand that the Centrals do better when cool (don’t grow as fast, but not a problem for me), but I end up keeping them warmer than ideal due to tank mates. I’m definitely putting more thought as I stock new tanks to make sure the fish are temp compatable - whereas the prior focus was temperament, ph and hardness comparable. Electricity savings is a bonus. I’ve also been experiencing with marten filters instead of canisters, and so far have seen improved results - again, electricity savings are a bonus - as is less potential for leakage or disaster from power outage

 

[RD.]

Heaters have always been made from relatively cheap low quality parts, due to consumer demand. Unfortunately the vast majority of hobbyists don't want to pay retail for a "lifetime" heater, so no one manufactures them. I solved that problem years ago with a quality control device, to add some redundancy into the equation. I also always use two smaller heaters, so even in the rare even that two devices fail at once (the control, and a heater) I have some time to catch it before things get too warm, or cold.

As far as complete failures, cracking, splitting, etc, in my tanks I added a grounding probe that works in conjunction with a GFCI power bar, so that as soon as any heating device fails, the power is instantly turned off. I still have (no longer in use) some old Stealth Pros that were part of the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission recall in 2011. Hundreds, perhaps thousands failed (2 of mine did), but explosions was/is an extremely rare event.

In this hobby redundancy is always a good thing, and one can never have too many layers of protection, BUT, seeing as this thread is about keeping our fish at the correct temps, or at least more in line with what's found in nature, I felt compelled to share with you the temps that a clown loach would typically experience in nature. This isn't to say that one can't keep CA/SA or other cichlids with loaches, but if one is focussing on overall long term health & hardiness I think that there is a fine line as to how warm or cold one can keep their tank water, to suit both groups of fish.

 

[Coryloach]

I felt compelled to share with you the temps that a clown loach would typically experience in nature.

I have to agree with R.D. on clown loaches. I've kept mine for quite a few years and have done my own research. One paper I read stated that for tropical fish, clown loaches have a very narrow optimal temperature range, unlike other tropical fish, even if coming from the same habitat. And the temperature range they stated was around 77F to 81.5 F. from what I can remember. Anything outside those is not ideal for the fish. Over the last 6 years I've kept mine between 77.9 and 78.8F, the latter being the optimal for these fish and whether because of that or other factors, my clowns have been rather healthy fish.

When one does reserch on their fish, they certainly need to start reading the scientific papers and not the random websites....

Even the dedicated loaches forum is stating incorrect temperature range for clown loaches as per the below., especifically the upper limit.....of 87F. According to scientific papers, young clowns survival rates in temperatures over 85.1F is extremely low. There is no way one should keep clown loaches in anything remotely near 87F or 30.5 C except for on temporary basis..., and never below 77F or 25C

https://www.loaches.com/species-index/clown-loach-chromobotia-macracanthus

"Temperature: 78ºF to 87ºF "

 

[RD.]

IMO loaches online is a farce, even their collection location ID info is incorrect. Years ago when I attempted to correct the admin and the author of that article in a very diplomatic manner (as per the info in my sticky posted here on MFK) I was basically ignored. Hopefully over time more people find their way to my sticky.

Bottom line is if one cares enough to take the time and do the research, including asking here as there are a number of members who have dove and even collected in many of these locations, or at the least have already done the research, the correct info is out there. There's really no excuse for ignorance, other than laziness.

 

[CANAMONSTER]

In my years my experience is you can't go wrong with a temp of 78 ton81 for all cichlids and most fish. Ehiems have never ever failed me and still have a couple 10 year old ones that still work like a clock. My experience with Haitiensis is keep them in low stress tank and they thrive.

 

[RD.]

Mike - Eheim/Jager heaters are just as crappy as the rest, in fact, they have become so unreliable that Jason from Pets & Ponds has the following posted on his heaters section, where he actually still sells them!

Despite their former reputation for a quality product Jager heaters are now the most unreliable heater we offer. Jager heaters are prone to highly irregular temperature fluctuations.

The older Jager heaters were very reliable in years past, but that changed when they sold out to Eheim. The problem with heaters is that on a whole, they are iffy, some fail right out of the box, and others last for years. It's a total crap shoot. I've personally had good luck with some brands, while others around me have had nothing but problems. But when a large online vendor tells me that he has more returns on one brand over all others, I'm not going to argue. lol

 

[ryansmith83]

They’re junk. and people swear by titaniums but I had a Jehmco controller catch FIRE last year, and one that died and let my tank drop down to 68. So now I buy the cheap Aqueon Pro black plastic heaters. When they go out they’re cheap enough to replace. I can buy three for the price of a Jager, which is just as likely to go out.

 

[sevs and sajicas for me]

I've been using the cheap aquatop heaters for years now. I've only had one fail on me and I caught it before it cooked my fish.

 

[Jhay3513]

I've been using the cheap aquatop heaters for years now. I've only had one fail on me and I caught it before it cooked my fish.

I’m running 2 400w aquatops on my 75g/40b display/sump. I ran a single heater and it wouldn’t get my tank past 78° and i was trying to get it to 84° for my haits. Popped the other one in and not it’s nice a cozy!! I did some searching here on the forum looking for collection data for convicts and couldn’t find any (or wasn’t looking in the right spots). Does any one know of their optimal temperature from their natural habitat?