Are we keeping our cichlids too warm!

[NW Cichlid Keith]

Perhaps I'm missing the message, are we lowering temps to save on the power bill, or are we lowering temps to create a healthier environment for our fish? In some cases we clearly can't have both.

Some members apparently liked the quoted post above by Keith, yet from my perspective this is exactly what one should NOT be doing. Chromobotia macracanthus, is a tropical species of fish that originates from inland swamps, streams, and rivers in Indonesia on the islands of Sumatra and Borneo. Using info gleaned from studies conducted on the Musi River in Sumatra (Legendre et al 2012) prior to the rainy season the average river temperature is 86-89.6 F. Optimum temperature for egg incubation (during the rainy season) is 78.8 F. (Baras et al 2012) Colder than 75.2, or warmer than 82.4 dramatically lowers hatching rates, and increases the rate of deformities. Clown loach eggs have a narrow thermal tolerance range in comparison to other tropical and temperate fishes. How well this species can adapt or tolerate less than ideal temperatures (or temps outside their normal range) as adults found in the wild, are no doubt wider than eggs and larvae, but still.....

So 68-72 is certainly not ideal, or the norm in the wild for this species, and may in fact be stressful to the fish. I would definitely not lower the temp to the mid 60's.


I'm all for creating a healthy environment for our fish, and I think that everyone should take the time to research the species that they keep, and what their normal seasonal temperature ranges are in the wild. If while a person is creating that environment they get lucky and can save on the hydro bill at the same time, it should be considered a bonus.

I’m certainly not taking the cheap way out - I overkill to provide the best for my Fish. What I have seen is that heaters are really getting crappy (even the expensive ones) and I have had some bad accidents with them sticking. I’ve also noticed that the recommended wattage is way overstated - especially in a covered or larger tank. As such, I scaled the wattage down, and in tanks with cold sensitive fish have gone to two small heaters. I’ve also seen on the web a lot of heaters blowing up, which scares me to death. For that reason, I’ve been keeping the basement warmer, scaling back on the need for heaters, and seriously taking a look at cool water Fish. I’ve also taken a look at mixed tanks - clown loaches being the example discussed. I have seen first hand that the Centrals do better when cool (don’t grow as fast, but not a problem for me), but I end up keeping them warmer than ideal due to tank mates. I’m definitely putting more thought as I stock new tanks to make sure the fish are temp compatable - whereas the prior focus was temperament, ph and hardness comparable. Electricity savings is a bonus. I’ve also been experiencing with marten filters instead of canisters, and so far have seen improved results - again, electricity savings are a bonus - as is less potential for leakage or disaster from power outage

I’m running 2 400w aquatops on my 75g/40b display/sump. I ran a single heater and it wouldn’t get my tank past 78° and i was trying to get it to 84° for my haits. Popped the other one in and not it’s nice a cozy!! I did some searching here on the forum looking for collection data for convicts and couldn’t find any (or wasn’t looking in the right spots). Does any one know of their optimal temperature from their natural habitat?

Convicts can take it real cold. Someone in my neighborhood (I don’t encourage this for obvious reasons) let his convicts go that he couldn’t give away (about a dozen) in a two foot deep creek in summer. I’m in Atlanta, and it got into the 20,s Fahrenheit that winter. The next summer, my son comes in and tells me that there is a convict eating in an area and chasing the bluegill away. I didn’t believe it, but went to see and sure enough it was there - was seen a few more times that summer, but never again. And I confirmed that no more had been let go.

 

[neutrino]

Certainly agree you should know the fish you're keeping, though common sense in weighing varying opinions based on experience can help, whether it comes naturally or develops with the learning curve.

Also agree regarding the limitations of many forums for reliable information-- many are self-pollinating sources of hearsay, opinion, or limited knowledge. The same could be said of a lot of fishkeeping articles I've seen. Clearly, some articles are written by non-experts based on some superficial online reading. I think there's a naturally widening learning curve-- lfs advice--> forum advice-- local fish club-- hobbyist literature (in whatever order)--> learning to distinguish the better advice and enthusiast literature--> looking at actual field research-- professional aquaculture-- science literature...

Besides laziness or ambition I've seen stubborness, ego, natural curiosity or lack thereof, intellectual approach, seriousness about the hobby, and willingness (or lack of) to keep an open mind or to recognize you've been wrong about something also affect what someone learns or doesn't.

 

[neutrino]

Imo quality equipment is a moving target anymore, anything from autos, appliances, anything with a motor or electronics. Corporate buyouts, management changes, replacing successful designs with more complicated, less reliable ones, changing component and materials sources, the same product can have good and bad years of manufacture...

I've had Fluval M heaters in my tanks for about 6 years, now, they've been accurate and problem free for me. Next time around, who knows?

 

[RD.]

Keith - see post # 73.

 

[8DiagramPoleFighter]

I use Fluval E Series with no issues. I switched from Ebo Jager (is it even called that now). I had a 300w Ebo in my 29g and it was heating it sufficiently so I had to make a change.

 

[RD.]

Imo quality equipment is a moving target anymore, anything from autos, appliances, anything with a motor or electronics. Corporate buyouts, management changes, replacing successful designs with more complicated, less reliable ones, changing component and materials sources, the same product can have good and bad years of manufacture...

Bingo. It doesn't matter a whole lot what anyone's experience is with any make/model/brand, they are all open to failure. My experience with Fluval E series is the exact opposite of the previous poster, both were crap right out of the box, and both eventually were returned for a refund. Like Ryan I have mostly been using Aqueon Pro black plastic heaters with good success for a number of yrs now, but I have also read numerous negative reviews about that make & model as well. As stated previously, today's heaters are a total crap shoot.

At work one of the highest device failures I have come across is a certain brand/model of smoke detector. These are units that are hard wired, with a battery back up, and a very well known brand name that we have used for years. Out of approx. the last 20 units purchased, 3 have failed shortly after installation. Ten years ago that would have been an extremely rare event, now I almost expect it. These are life saving devices that are installed in senior health care facilities. Just a wee bit more important than an aquarium heater, yet the same rules seem to apply. Cheaper/faster, not better, with todays standards apparently allowing a much higher rate of failure than the past.

 

[8DiagramPoleFighter]

I use Fluval E Series with no issues. I switched from Ebo Jager (is it even called that now). I had a 300w Ebo in my 29g and it wasn’t heating it sufficiently so I had to make a change.

 

[CANAMONSTER]

Mike - Eheim/Jager heaters are just as crappy as the rest, in fact, they have become so unreliable that Jason from Pets & Ponds has the following posted on his heaters section, where he actually still sells them!

Despite their former reputation for a quality product Jager heaters are now the most unreliable heater we offer. Jager heaters are prone to highly irregular temperature fluctuations.

The older Jager heaters were very reliable in years past, but that changed when they sold out to Eheim. The problem with heaters is that on a whole, they are iffy, some fail right out of the box, and others last for years. It's a total crap shoot. I've personally had good luck with some brands, while others around me have had nothing but problems. But when a large online vendor tells me that he has more returns on one brand over all others, I'm not going to argue. lol

That's crazy! Wow. Mine are all about 3 years plus old. I have not bought one recently. Like everything thing else now days, Remington shotguns , used to be built like tanks, now they rust and break

 

[Stanzzzz7]

I've had my tank heaters switched off pretty much since I started this thread. My tanks temperature has only dropped to 75.
I'm not sure what this proves other than I was right all along about one thing. My misses always has the central heating on too high.
And she says my tanks are the reason our energy bills are high.

 

[CANAMONSTER]

They’re junk. and people swear by titaniums but I had a Jehmco controller catch FIRE last year, and one that died and let my tank drop down to 68. So now I buy the cheap Aqueon Pro black plastic heaters. When they go out they’re cheap enough to replace. I can buy three for the price of a Jager, which is just as likely to go out.

I wouldn't keep those heaters with any fish you care about, have you seen what happened to them in Joey Diy ray tank?