2 Severums dead

[Nikkijas]

Hi everyone,
I have a problem trying to figure out what has happened to 2 of my Severums both died the same way about 10 months apart. Very quick. Fine one day and then gone the next day.

The first fish was the male. He was 10+ inches I was told 4 years old. I had him for maybe 2 years. He had no signs of anything, no bloat that I could tell nothing I could see physically. He ate the morning but then would not eat that night and was gone the next morning. I figured he was older than what I was told and it was old age that took him.

The second was my female today. She ate on Wednesday morning then stopped. I did a large water change even though water quality was good. I thought I could see that she was a little bloated so I gave her an epsom salt bath. 1 tbs per 1 gallon of water for 5 minutes. This didn’t seem to help. I did this last night. I checked on her throughout the night and she seemed ok, not normal but ok. 4 hours later she is gone.

They both lived in a 210g, sump plus an FX6 weekly water changes of 50-70% water changes temp matched.

Could I have over fed both and killed them??? They are pigs and I try to get food down to the catfish. I am so upset by this because I just can’t figure it out.

Feeding

I will admit they had no fresh veggies for about two weeks

Omega one cichlid pellets sinking
Omega one veggie pellets sinking
Kens flakes
Shrimp pellets
Romaine lettuce
Zucchini

Frozen food once in awhile

Parameters

Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate- 80 by the time water change day comes

Stock
4 hoplo catfish
1 Raphael catfish
1 python eel(spiney eel)
4 BPs
1 Geophagus
Several of the babies from the two Severums that passed away. I will guess 10-15. Very hard to catch. Still working on this. They range from 1”-4”

If I forgot anything or if anyone has any ideas please help me out with this. I am pretty sad considering I couldn’t help either and I just have no clue what happened.

Thank you in advance for all suggestions.

 

[Nikkijas]

Also I still have the fish should I have my husband open her up and see if anything looks off inside of her? Would this help me figure it out?

 

[duanes]

The only thing that seems odd to me, is the 80 ppm nitrate.
Although not acutely toxic, over time that high nitrate could cause chronic disease. But with your normal water change regime I'm surprised nitrate is so high.
What is your filtration?
What is the pH of your tap water, compared to just before the water change? and what is pH after? Are they quite different?
I wonder if in the week between water changes, the tank water pH has crashed, and the new water is a drastic change.
If so, maybe smaller more frequent water changes are in order.
Are your filters cleaned of gunk with each water change?
What is the harness, and alkalinity of the tap water, compare to tank water just before the normal water change?

 

[Nikkijas]

The only thing that seems odd to me, is the 80 ppm nitrate.
Although not acutely toxic, over time that high nitrate could cause chronic disease. But with your normal water change regime I'm surprised nitrate is so high.
What is your filtration?
What is the pH of your tap water compared to just before the water change? and what is pH after? Are they quite different?
I wonder if in the week between water changes, the tank water pH has crashed, and the new water is a drastic change.
If so, maybe smaller more frequent water changes are in order.
Are your filters cleaned of gunk with each water change?

Hi thank you for the response. My Ph is right around 7 and does drop to 6.8. I will be honest I don’t know a lot about ph crashes. I have read a ton about it but I don’t quite understand it. I am assuming the nitrate is due to my over feeding because the baby Severums eat so much food that the other fish don’t get any. Seriously they are out of control. Another thing that may be a problem with the nitrates is I have a 3D custom background that does have space behind it and it isn’t too pretty back there but I have no clue how to fix that problem.

My filtration is a wet/dry sump Fx6 and two large sponge filters. I change the machanical filtration in the prefilter trays every week and clean the Fx6 once a month but it is never gross I think because of the prefilters. I also have a UV sterilizer I always keep running.

If the ph was the problem wouldn’t the eel or the juvenile Severums be effected first since they are more sensitive?

I have well water and all parameters stay pretty much the same.

The temp in the tank doesn’t fluctuate much as I have an alarm on it in case of heater failure.

If it were the nitrates would the deaths take longer? I mean I don’t think I have seen fish act so normal and then bam gone. No erratic swimming no gasping for air. That’s why I thought maybe I killed them if I fed too much and that individual fish ate way too much?

I did take pictures of the female that just passed if you think that could help?

It’s to the point that I am actually scared of keeping Severums because of this. I have many other fish and these seem to be a problem for me? Weird since I thought I took care of them properly

 

[Nikkijas]

The only thing that seems odd to me, is the 80 ppm nitrate.
Although not acutely toxic, over time that high nitrate could cause chronic disease. But with your normal water change regime I'm surprised nitrate is so high.
What is your filtration?
What is the pH of your tap water, compared to just before the water change? and what is pH after? Are they quite different?
I wonder if in the week between water changes, the tank water pH has crashed, and the new water is a drastic change.
If so, maybe smaller more frequent water changes are in order.
Are your filters cleaned of gunk with each water change?
What is the harness, and alkalinity of the tap water, compare to tank water just before the normal water change?

This doesn’t sound right but my husband was just talking to a guy he works with that knows a lot about wild fish so not sure if this could be the case. Since both the fish in question were the parents of the juveniles could all the babies have stressed them out due to having to protect them 24/7 and shortened their life span this is a community tank these babies weren’t supposed to be able to survive, there were two Green Terrors in this tank that I had to remove because they were going after the babies constantly so the tank was a mess with aggression ? I have been removing babies constantly but it has taken quite awhile because of the size of the tank and how quick they are. Just throwing this out there.

Sooooooo frustrated.

 

[duanes]

A drop of 7 to 6.8 is very normal and shouldn't be problem unless the water right out of the tap its 8.4 or higher. running straight into a 6.8 pH tank
Nitrates tend to be a chronic problem and usually affect older fish, over the long term, and they first show signs like hole in the head scarring.
Maybe the well has high nitrate already, are you in a rural area?
Or if there is a lot of gunk built up behind the back ground that could be the nitrate factory, maybe some dead baby severums stuck there?.
Or as you say over feeding.

 

[Nikkijas]

So long term for nitrate poisoning would be how long? The nitrate was never high before these babies. The male I think was older than 4 years but no way to know for sure. The female was only 2.5 years. Is nitrate poisoning that aggressive in terms of no signs and then dead?

I looked behind the back ground last week and there are no dead babies back there but there were two living ones back there! We were able to get one and the other we keep trying but no luck as of today.

I have 0 nitrate in my well water. Ph in my tap is 7.

Do you think if we open her up it would help to figure this out? I want to keep 2 of the offspring but not if this is going to happen.

 

[duanes]

I don't think opening the fish up will tell much, unless you are a a trained veterinarian and know what you are looking for.
If there are no nitrates in the tap water, and the tank has 80ppm, that's quite the difference, and the only thing I see.
But as to why.....???
Just a thought, did you see the juvies picking at the sides and slime coat of the parents?
I had a hard time keeping up with feedings after a haitiensus spawn, and the fry ate a gaping hole in the male,

he did not resist, and I had to remove him to another tank to keep him from being cannibalized.

If a slime coat on a fish is eaten off, it is less resistant to stress, toxins, and bacterial infections.
So i find either removing parents, or fry to grow out tanks, after a certain amount of time helps prevent this.

 

[Nikkijas]

Oh no!!! That’s what happened with the male! No hole though. I kept seeing the fry do that but I had no idea I did not see them doing that to the female recently but I will say she seemed annoyed by them. Even the biggest one would stay right near her after the male died. So can I take away from this that nitrates aren’t good (obviously), I know this was my fault. I was feeding them way too much because I didn’t want the fry to starve or my catfish for that matter. The stress of the fry could have been the route cause of the deaths?

As a side note the fry were not intended and as most people said they would all get eaten by other fish. So I let nature takes it course which was a whopping 250-300 fry running around in a 210g community tank. This will never happen again.

 

[Nikkijas]

I don't think opening the fish up will tell much, unless you are a a trained veterinarian and know what you are looking for.
If there are no nitrates in the tap water, and the tank has 80ppm, that's quite the difference, and the only thing I see.
But as to why.....???
Just a thought, did you see the juvies picking at the sides and slime coat of the parents?
I had a hard time keeping up with feedings after a haitiensus spawn, and the fry ate a gaping hole in the male,

he did not resist, and I had to remove him to another tank to keep him from being cannibalized.

If a slime coat on a fish is eaten off, it is less resistant to stress, toxins, and bacterial infections.
So i find either removing parents, or fry to grow out tanks, after a certain amount of time helps prevent this.

I didn’t hit the reply button when I responded. Sorry.