Longevity of liquid rubber or Pond Shield

[TinoL]

Hi everyone, I'm a brand new member and glad to be aboard! I joined because this seems to be one of the best sources for DIY for aquariums and I'll definitely going to try and DIY

So the DIY would be to build a larger tank than my 120 Gallon. I've settled on 72L X 36D X 24H. I have a source for the glass (1/2") and quality plywood and I've got some experience with wood working so that part should be no problem. The only part I'm concerned about is sealing the plywood.

After much reading, I settled on using Liquid Rubber (already purchased) which I see has been used for ponds and plywood tanks - and for sealing the glass , I see that Butyl rubber or 3M 5200 would work well to stick to both glass and the liquid rubber.

All was good until I went to a local fish store and was speaking with the owner and wanted to see if they supply anything like the 3M 5200 which is near impossible to find here in Canada as far as I can tell and when I told him of my plans, he steered me away from liquid rubber and suggested Pond Shield (which he sells) because he said liquid rubber will break down much quicker when exposed to UV from aquarium lights.

Is this true? I'd imagine that outdoor sunlight would have far higher UV levels than aquarium lights and I see liquid rubber used for ponds. Is he just trying to make a sale off the pond shield? I'm hoping whatever I build to last at least 10-15 years if I do it right.

Anyone have any feeling on durability of liquid rubber when used for plywood tanks? Many thanks and sorry for the long wordy post.

 

[stempy]

Hopefully you will get some people who have used those products and have had long term success. I can't recall any tanks with liquid rubber that have continued posting their tank years later. Pond shield seems to have mixed results at best, it's expensive and tough to work wth causing micro fractures which in turn lead to leaks. I can tell you my tank has been going for, ummm....memory loss...4 or 5 years without looking at my build thread to see start date. I used max acr and have had zero leaks or issues from day one. Went on pretty much exactly like paint and you could color it literally any color you want.

 

[TinoL]

Hi stempy. Many thanks for the reply back. I had not heard of the Max ACR but isn't it also an epoxy like pond shield? I guess there are many formulations of epoxy and maybe some more brittle than others. Its one of the things that drew me to liquid rubber but ya, not seeing many updates. I found one user on youtube that had used it and I just heard back from them. So their tank from 2013 is still running and no incidents and no apparent signs of degredation of any kind.

I also got a response back from liquid rubber and they told me that their product is intended to last many year in out door / full sun environments so in a home aquarium, they suspect it should be pretty much a non issue. I also found one article that pretty much said that EDPM liquid rubbers and EDPM liners should easily last over 25 years when not subject to physical punctures or stresses - basically it shouldn't just break down on its own but who knows really. It was an article discussing pond applications.

Well I've decided I'll still go ahead with the liquid rubber and keep my fingers crossed. I guess the one good think about a plywood tank is that if it leaks, the structure shouldn't just blow out as long as its done right.

 

[maks]

Well I've decided I'll still go ahead with the liquid rubber and keep my fingers crossed. I guess the one good think about a plywood tank is that if it leaks, the structure shouldn't just blow out as long as its done right.

Hello TinoL, did it work? Did you use 3M 5200 or Butyl rubber? If you used Butyl rubber can you provide a link for online purchase?
kind regards

 

[TinoL]

Hello TinoL, did it work? Did you use 3M 5200 or Butyl rubber? If you used Butyl rubber can you provide a link for online purchase?
kind regards

Hi, I used the 3M 5200 in my build. So far so good. Its been close to 2 years. I posted my build here

My 300 gallon plywood build

Hi all, about 3 years ago, I started planning a plywood build. I researched, debated, procrastinated, thought some more..etc... then finally I was like you know, this has to get done. I purchased the parts I thought I needed so I'd be financially commited so I would start. This did the trick...

www.monsterfishkeepers.com

 

[maks]

Hi, I used the 3M 5200 in my build. So far so good. Its been close to 2 years. I posted my build here

My 300 gallon plywood build

Hi all, about 3 years ago, I started planning a plywood build. I researched, debated, procrastinated, thought some more..etc... then finally I was like you know, this has to get done. I purchased the parts I thought I needed so I'd be financially commited so I would start. This did the trick...

www.monsterfishkeepers.com

Impressive job ...and result! May I ask you how much time you waited for the next coating? We have a similar product in Italy (translated as BOSTIK liquid rubber) that looks and behaves very much the same and its technical documents report the tech-name Griffon HBS-200 liquid rubber. I have used it as extra layer (3 coats) over 4 pond-shield epoxy layers in terrariums. The product docs suggest to wait just 10 minutes when not using the reinforcing fabric tape, but I have seen docs for liquid rubber telling to wait for full cure of every coat (24hrs). kind regards

 

[TinoL]

Impressive job ...and result! May I ask you how much time you waited for the next coating? We have a similar product in Italy (translated as BOSTIK liquid rubber) that looks and behaves very much the same and its technical documents report the tech-name Griffon HBS-200 liquid rubber. I have used it as extra layer (3 coats) over 4 pond-shield epoxy layers in terrariums. The product docs suggest to wait just 10 minutes when not using the reinforcing fabric tape, but I have seen docs for liquid rubber telling to wait for full cure of every coat (24hrs). kind regards

Thank you my friend. So I waited the 24 hours between coats. I also waited an extra 30 days after the final coat was put in to ensure all glues and everything was fully cured. I know its crazy but I thought better safe than sorry.

 

[jjohnwm]

So glad I found this thread. Years ago I built a number of plywood tanks that were sealed with a Pratt & Lambert 2-part epoxy product called PalGuard. Toxic fumes, time constraints, limited colour selection, the whole gamut of unpleasant characteristics...but that stuff was bulletproof and many of those tanks were still functioning well into their second decade.

Now, having moved into my last home in a different province, I am starting again. I built a 120gallon plywood tank a couple of years ago, sealed with Pond Shield, and it seems to be holding up well, but 2 years is not really what I consider the acid test. Pond Shield was, by comparison to PalGuard, ridiculously easy to use and apply. It had, relatively speaking, no fumes; an important feature for me now, since that tank needed to be built and sealed in my basement, rather than out in the open air like my previous builds. Liquid Rubber just didn't seem to fit my wants/requirements, and I wanted something that would allow good adherence to silicone.

My tanks are much simpler in construction: no outside bracing, no corner pieces, no interior "pocket" for the glass...just a box with a window cut out of the front, sealed inside, and with a piece of glass siliconed in place. The heavy glass is supported strictly by silicone. This construction has always worked for me for tanks up to my maximum 360gallons (8x3x2 feet). I am now preparing to assemble one of that size again, and have all the goodies lined up and ready: wood cut/sanded, glass cut, all the silicone, glue, clamps, screws, etc. lined up on the workbench. But...how to seal?

I can't find PalGuard anymore. Never heard of Max ACR but will be researching it now. I live in Canuckistan so product availability may not be as extensive as in the U.S.

The idea mentioned here about using Liquid Rubber on top of Pond Shield sounds interesting. I'm thinking about possibly using the Pond Shield, siliconing the glass into place, and then coating the whole thing with the rubber, right over top of the silicone and extending onto the edges of the glass. Need to check if the rubber will allow this.

Any other possibilities out there? Suggestions? Critiques?

 

[maks]

...Pond Shield was, by comparison to PalGuard, ridiculously easy to use and apply. It had, relatively speaking, no fumes; an important feature for me now, since that tank needed to be built and sealed in my basement, rather than out in the open air like my previous builds. Liquid Rubber just didn't seem to fit my wants/requirements, and I wanted something that would allow good adherence to silicone.

My tanks are much simpler in construction: no outside bracing, no corner pieces, no interior "pocket" for the glass...just a box with a window cut out of the front, sealed inside, and with a piece of glass siliconed in place. The heavy glass is supported strictly by silicone. This construction has always worked for me for tanks up to my maximum 360gallons (8x3x2 feet). I am now preparing to assemble one of that size again, and have all the goodies lined up and ready: wood cut/sanded, glass cut, all the silicone, glue, clamps, screws, etc. lined up on the workbench. But...how to seal?

I can't find PalGuard anymore. Never heard of Max ACR but will be researching it now. I live in Canuckistan so product availability may not be as extensive as in the U.S.

The idea mentioned here about using Liquid Rubber on top of Pond Shield sounds interesting. I'm thinking about possibly using the Pond Shield, siliconing the glass into place, and then coating the whole thing with the rubber, right over top of the silicone and extending onto the edges of the glass. Need to check if the rubber will allow this.

Any other possibilities out there? Suggestions? Critiques?

Hello, I am familiar with PondShield and my experience was very similar to yours. No issue rolling and paint-brushing it. No problem in fiberglassing either. You just need to plan ahead the timing for the coats. I successfully tested my terrariums with water (18cm~7") but just to be sure I decided to sand the bottom and apply (bostik) liquid rubber on it. In my case the liquid rubber is completely covered with a clay hydro-balls (drainage false-bottom) layer and a layer of organic substrate/dirt so it's forced to remain there in one piece. I read in some threads that after a while (approx. 1 year) the rubber layer dissolved into pieces, in other I found that holes formed in the middle of panels, so it's nice knowing that TinoL didn't have any issues even for longer time. I also remember having read about filling the tank for a few days, emptying it, cleaning the brownish surface layer formed during water contact and then re-filling it again. This porcess would also give more strength to the rubber "tank inside" the wooden tank.

I am not sure that liquid rubber will stick over the silicon beads, I still haven't tested it on glass either.

I read about very positive experiences about Max ACR over PS (in this forum). Unfortunately the shipping cost to Italy is more expensive than the product itself. I have just contacted the company on ebay for possible alternatives. I really would like to try it. A member (Stempy, if my memory still works) adopted it for his giant basement tank and had no issues for years. In the meantime I am testing the liquid rubber product available in Italy in a small plywood testing tank (D3 vinyl glue, no reinforcement) with only 3 thin layers and only 24h cure. So far (2 days) no leak.

 

[maks]

Just a follow-up about the liquid rubber products available in Europe (Bostik/Griffon). I contacted the italian company staff and they told me that for this purpose (water-tank) I should wait 12h between coats instead of the 10 minutes shown in the instructional/advertising video. So I guess all these different brands basically sells a very similar product (tech-name HBS-200) with reported elasticity/elongation ranging from 750% to 900%. My tiny quick test tank is still holding water, didn't turn brown but (as the staff technician told me last year) it's still a little tacky. I will try to clean it with salt water to make less tacky, I don't remember where I read about this method.
I also developed an interest for sani-tred products and contacted the company for better instructions. They support wooden-tank coating. They sent me an instructional pdf document and answered very kindly to my Qs. What I like about this last product (or to be more precise "product combo") is that you don't need silicon at all to seal the glass/acrylic window. You use one(or two) of their product combo instead (LRB+TAV). You just need to prime the borders of the windows with their epoxy primer. They also claim that the result coating is as tough as a truck tire: the idea of having a strong rubber container bonded to the wooden-tank walls is very appealing and reassuring.