The source of protein is not as relevant as actual amino acids. Bugs and worms are really not necessary for any nutrient or essential amino acids. Aquatic food source are more closely aligned with fish's nutritional requirements.
Unpopular opinion- NLS not impressed...
- Thread starter Galactik
- Start date
The source of protein is not as relevant as actual amino acids. Bugs and worms are really not necessary for any nutrient or essential amino acids. Aquatic food source are more closely aligned with fish's nutritional requirements.
+1 to xraycer
You’re using human logic for fish. Feed them higher quality to live longer. Cut out the “cheeseburgers” and don’t cave.
If you want to feed bugs, Northfin bug pro crisps have better ingredients than the Fluval bug bites. More black soldier.fly larvae and less junk filling.
My fish eat NLS. I feed.the Northfin kelp wafers but they also like the NLS wafers (though I'm currently out of those). I believe NLS.by itself it fine but I got a great deal on a big jug of repashy when Aquarium Coop had the huge jugs and had a sale last year I have Northfin bug pro crisps and the Carnivore.also.bc I found a great deal but I haven't opened.them yet. I also feed frozen Canadian mysis as Liveaquaria had the big frozen packages on clearance for lie $11.
If you want variety, I would do it with quality products like I listed above but again, I believe RD and Pablo that NLS by itself is fine. I just can't resist deals.
The one food my clown Loaches go absolutely nuts for is the mysis pellets from Piscine energetics. Again I got them on clearance. Ingredients are okay except they have whey 5-6 ingredients down. It's crazy expensive though.
My big loach that doesn't like to come out of her cave in the light will immediately come out if I feed these pellets.
They also like the frozen Cobalt and PE mysis I have but they go more nuts over the PE mysis pellets. Even my panda Garra into a frenzy over it.
My fish eat NLS. I feed.the Northfin kelp wafers but they also like the NLS wafers (though I'm currently out of those). I believe NLS.by itself it fine but I got a great deal on a big jug of repashy when Aquarium Coop had the huge jugs and had a sale last year I have Northfin bug pro crisps and the Carnivore.also.bc I found a great deal but I haven't opened.them yet. I also feed frozen Canadian mysis as Liveaquaria had the big frozen packages on clearance for lie $11.
If you want variety, I would do it with quality products like I listed above but again, I believe RD and Pablo that NLS by itself is fine. I just can't resist deals.
The one food my clown Loaches go absolutely nuts for is the mysis pellets from Piscine energetics. Again I got them on clearance. Ingredients are okay except they have whey 5-6 ingredients down. It's crazy expensive though.
My big loach that doesn't like to come out of her cave in the light will immediately come out if I feed these pellets.
They also like the frozen Cobalt and PE mysis I have but they go more nuts over the PE mysis pellets. Even my panda Garra into a frenzy over it.
Will totally disagree with you on this point. It is not the same thing, you did not address other elements in different protein sources and my concerns about mass farming. It loses alot of things in the process.
Even food fish farmers themselves WILL not eat their own fish they raised on the same feed. Wild caught salmon tastes different than farmed salmon and even have different coloring to their flesh.
We can go in a different perspective here besides fish:
Look at HONEY. Honeybees collecting pollen from different sources
Does it still have the same result? Its still honey yet not the same! People with allergies who uses this as medicine will know that answer. Its not the same thing whatsoever.
Same thing applies to the food sources and it also involves more than just amino acid. Farmed fish eating their own fish meal crap produces crappy fish product itself.
Mass produced proteins even fruits/vegs LOSES alot of flavor. Because they are fed/fertilized the same crap over and over. Yet you want to tell me this hogwash is the same thing? Yuck! Try a farm mass produced strawberry vs real strawberry grown in someones backyard using same variety?
I can tell tell the difference between mass farm produced chicken vs homeraised chicken in the meat itself and how its cooked as well under the same condition. Even can tell the difference between one brand of chicken to the next by its flavor id you presented and cooked it the same way and gave me two pieces i can tell you its from two different farms. There is way more to just "amino acids" hence me wanting to expand the options.
Even cheese are not the same either. Look at Parmesan cheese. It ONLY can be produced from cows feeding off a region in Italy. Thats it. Many attempts have been made to replicate that has failed in other areas. Look it up if you dont believe me.
I do believe the bugs and the worms hold the key they go out in the world and bring back that missing element in the food chain here for my fish. I just cant accept "mass produced feed" and no im not humanizing it when the result is very clear on a farmed fish being fed the same crap over and over vs a wild caught fish feeding off different variety what the wild has to offer.
hmmm do I want a cowboy ribeye with a baked potato (sour cream/slabs of butter) or some Kale salad with tofu and a couple shots of wheat grass? Bah, give me the fatty steak please...I want to feel like hell and go into food coma.
But in all seriousness fish train me all the time...I fold too easy. I am lucky my latest fish are going crazy for algaemax/probiotix mix....I feed northfin too.
But in all seriousness fish train me all the time...I fold too easy. I am lucky my latest fish are going crazy for algaemax/probiotix mix....I feed northfin too.
Thanks for the tips definitely will try Northfin bug pro and mysis pellets from Piscine energetics next time I order food for my loaches. Am going to try repashy grub pie for the clouded archerfish that definitely ingores the NLS pellets. They only will eat freeze dried bloodworms and mealworms.
Several of the repashy have good ingredients. The only issue RD had was that they aren't good value for the money. You have to divide the nutritional value by 3 or 4 (however many parts water you out in). He says the same thing about the NLS product that similar to repashy.
Also the knock again frozen food is similar. We are paying for mostly water.
Just to clarify about the PE Pellets. I see it's like $20-24 in a quick Google shopping search for 8oz which I think I'm not willing to pay now. I got on sale for $12 when it was on clearance at liveaquaria two Decembers ago. (It looks like.they carry it again. Just under $24) My situation is different as my fish are eating the NLS so that's more cost effective for me.
I kept the PE pellets in freezer which is why I'm still finishing it. If cost doesn't matter, I'm sure your loaches will love it like mine do. Also in that Google search I see they sell in 5lb buckets from other suppliers.
I had the saltwater version but I believe the ingredients.are.exactly the same. I got the list below form the LA listing. I don't like the whey buts it's far down there. In NLS's defense, I do think the ingredients of whole Antarctic krill and giant squid might be better than Mysis and Deboned white fish meal, but I don't think the ingredients below are that bad. (From my limited knowledge from reading all the fish food threads here.) There are definitely worse out there.
Ingredients:
Mysis diluviana, Deboned White Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Antarctic Krill Meal, Brewer’s Dried Yeast, Whey, Sodium Alginate, Molasses, Fish Oil, Astaxanthin, Spirulina, Choline Chloride, Lecithin, l-Ascorbic acid 2-monophosphate (Vitamin C), Calcium Chloride, HexMetPhos, Vitamins (Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, Vitamin B12, Riboflavin, p-Panthothenic Acid, Niacin, Choline, Thiamine, Pyridoxine, Folic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Biotin, BHT, Inositol), Minerals (Manganese, Zinc, Iron, Copper, Cobalt, Iodine, Selenium)
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I kept the PE pellets in freezer which is why I'm still finishing it. If cost doesn't matter, I'm sure your loaches will love it like mine do. Also in that Google search I see they sell in 5lb buckets from other suppliers.
I had the saltwater version but I believe the ingredients.are.exactly the same. I got the list below form the LA listing. I don't like the whey buts it's far down there. In NLS's defense, I do think the ingredients of whole Antarctic krill and giant squid might be better than Mysis and Deboned white fish meal, but I don't think the ingredients below are that bad. (From my limited knowledge from reading all the fish food threads here.) There are definitely worse out there.
Ingredients:
Mysis diluviana, Deboned White Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Antarctic Krill Meal, Brewer’s Dried Yeast, Whey, Sodium Alginate, Molasses, Fish Oil, Astaxanthin, Spirulina, Choline Chloride, Lecithin, l-Ascorbic acid 2-monophosphate (Vitamin C), Calcium Chloride, HexMetPhos, Vitamins (Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, Vitamin B12, Riboflavin, p-Panthothenic Acid, Niacin, Choline, Thiamine, Pyridoxine, Folic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Biotin, BHT, Inositol), Minerals (Manganese, Zinc, Iron, Copper, Cobalt, Iodine, Selenium)
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| Crude Protein | 42.0% min |
| Crude Fat | 8.0% min |
| Crude Fiber | 2.0% max |
| Ash | 6.0% max |
| Moisture | 10.0% max |
| Phosphorous | 0.75% Max |
| Omega-3 | 2.0% Min |
| Omega-6 | 1.0% Min |
| Vitamin A | 50,000 IU/kg |
| Vitamin D | 2,000 IU/kg |
| Vitamin E | 200 IU/kg |
[TD]Guaranteed Analysis[/TD]
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I have fed NLS too, a tank full of angels went nuts for it, I always thought if I kept dropping it in they would keep eating it until they died. Another tank with acaras and geos wouldn't touch it no matter what I did. If I starved them for a week they might eat ape,let or 2. This was both tanks being fed from the same tub of pellets. No idea why this was the case.
Up until very recently I never really paid attention to fish food ingredients. My train of thought was, well I don't know diddly squat about fish nutrition, but hikari, fluval, NLS, tetrafin etc etc sure do, so you leave it in their hands and trust that the product they're making is tip top.
Then I started reading threads about the low %'s of actual quality ingredients and also the very low grade "fillers" that are also used, some it would seem are top secret. So I started looking at the ingredients, not that I really knew what I was looking for, but it soon struck me that the amount of ingredients in these products that you wouldn't neccessarily associate with fish are vast. Wheat bran, brewers dried yeast, flaked corn, wheat flour, corn gluten meal, rice bran. These incidently are among the first 7 or 8 ingredients in hikari cichlid sinking gold. Those ingredients, being listed first, I would assume, by volume, are the majority of the ingredients.
Hey, i'm no expert but those ingredients, beneficial for fish long term? I don't know.
But i'll add this. Whatever is in these foods my fish don't care one way or the other. I feed loads of products and ALL of them get nailed. And my fish look happy enough and they seem healthy enough.
Then I started reading threads about the low %'s of actual quality ingredients and also the very low grade "fillers" that are also used, some it would seem are top secret. So I started looking at the ingredients, not that I really knew what I was looking for, but it soon struck me that the amount of ingredients in these products that you wouldn't neccessarily associate with fish are vast. Wheat bran, brewers dried yeast, flaked corn, wheat flour, corn gluten meal, rice bran. These incidently are among the first 7 or 8 ingredients in hikari cichlid sinking gold. Those ingredients, being listed first, I would assume, by volume, are the majority of the ingredients.
Hey, i'm no expert but those ingredients, beneficial for fish long term? I don't know.
But i'll add this. Whatever is in these foods my fish don't care one way or the other. I feed loads of products and ALL of them get nailed. And my fish look happy enough and they seem healthy enough.
