Unpopular opinion- NLS not impressed...

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
I posted the following back in 2007.....


Why is it that humans insist on humanizing their pets? I have seen more mentally unbalanced dogs in my lifetime than I can count, from just this sort of illogical thinking. Dogs don't think like you & I, and neither do fish. In the wild fish eat to survive, not because they take pleasure in it.

In the wild Harlequin shrimp eat only the feet of the Starfish, do they get bored of this diet?
Do Monarch butterflies get bored of only eating milkweed?
Do Koala bears get bored of eating eucalyptus leaves?

Of course not.

Yet when someone feeds their fish a single dry food certain segments of this hobby cry foul as though the poor creatures are being deprived of some form of enjoyment?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ruturaj, twentyleagues and xraycer
And this logic only seems to apply to fish. If one looks at the dog world, or cats, owners who feed dry kibble tend to only feed one formula, not several at the same time. Imagine the space required for feeding several different brands of dog food, for a couple of adult German Shepherds. It doesn't happen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cardeater
tlindsey said:
You tell my Datnoid that lol but I get what you are stating and true about wild animals thriving on one certain food such as eucalyptus leaves for koalas. Believe me I'm a Animal Planet , National Geographic fanatic.
Click to expand...
Oh no, I get it! Like I said my GG and bullhead do not get the same NLS diet. My GG gets fresh veggies and fruits, with a supplemental pellets. My 7yo 14" bullhead went from Hikari Carnivore to exclusively Tetra Jumbomin nowadays.
It's never a one size fits all scenario. Point is that, it they are willingly taken it, there's no need to feel compel to switch it up, just because you feel they need a change from the monotony.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tlindsey and RD.
I think cichlids are pretty smart though. Maybe it's just me, but I have about 4 types of food sitting on top of my acrylic tank. It appears that they react differently (both feeding and anticipation) to which one I grab. As stated earlier in the thread...I shouldn't place the food on top of the tank; however, it is like they already know what pellet/flake is in each container lol. If I begin popping cubes out of the Hikari Jumbo Bloodworms pack and plopping them into my dosing cup I use for feeding on top of the tank...the fish certainly know what's going on and what's going to happen. There behavior is objectively different than if I start holding the container of flakes if front of the tank. Although the anthropomorphism of fish may seem kind of silly, they are very susceptible to conditioning it seems. Hence the saying, train the fish, do not let the fish train you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RD. and Zanzag
Wharf said:
I think cichlids are pretty smart though. Maybe it's just me, but I have about 4 types of food sitting on top of my acrylic tank. It appears that they react differently (both feeding and anticipation) to which one I grab. As stated earlier in the thread...I shouldn't place the food on top of the tank; however, it is like they already know what pellet/flake is in each container lol. If I begin popping cubes out of the Hikari Jumbo Bloodworms pack and plopping them into my dosing cup I use for feeding on top of the tank...the fish certainly know what's going on and what's going to happen. There behavior is objectively different than if I start holding the container of flakes if front of the tank. Although the anthropomorphism of fish may seem kind of silly, they are very susceptible to conditioning it seems. Hence the saying, train the fish, do not let the fish train you.
Click to expand...


Correct, and what you are seeing is known as associative conditioning. The fish see their owner approaching the tank, picking up various containers, in various shapes & colors, lifting the lid, and they have come to expect that the next thing that will take place is that food will be dropped in the tank. The food typically appeals to their olfactory senses, as well as their taste buds, and they eat.

Some people might see the above scene as illustrating a group of happy fish. I see it as a group of fish that are doing what comes natural to them. The fact that some fish prefer some foods over others, doesn't tell us anything beyond what we have always known, animals have preferences, sometimes for a multitude of reasons.

But the question then becomes should we ignore the nutritional value of foods based on human emotions, or feed what we know is best for the animal?

Offer a group of young children two platters of food; one platter filled with cake & candy, and another with baked salmon & steamed broccoli, and it should become crystal clear why it's up to us to choose what's best for our fish to eat. I'm certain that everyone will agree that cichlids do not have the same intelligence level as human children.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ruturaj, Zanzag and Wharf
RD. said:
And this logic only seems to apply to fish. If one looks at the dog world, or cats, owners who feed dry kibble tend to only feed one formula, not several at the same time. Imagine the space required for feeding several different brands of dog food, for a couple of adult German Shepherds. It doesn't happen.
Click to expand...
Agreed. In dogs and cats it can and will cause gastrointestinal issues.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RD.
RD. said:
But the question then becomes should we ignore the nutritional value of foods based on human emotions, or feed what we know is best for the animal?

Offer a group of young children two platters of food; one platter filled with cake & candy, and another with baked salmon & steamed broccoli, and it should become crystal clear why it's up to us to choose what's best for our fish to eat. I'm certain that everyone will agree that cichlids do not have the same intelligence level as human children.
Click to expand...
Well put, the personification of the fish leads to the owner thinking that they are happy...when they are actually just doing what they are conditioned to do (hmm the owner or fish lol). A kid will always choose mac & cheese over brussel sprouts...hell I would. I think this personification leads to people not being able to fast fish until they accept a different food. I believe human feelings get in the way when fish start begging or not reacting as anticipated...and then human meaning is assigned to these behaviors for rationalization and justification. I am definitely guilty of this at times. Although I have an awareness of this, it is still a habitual thought thought process. Most of the time I believe I need the behavioral modification...not the fish lol. I also like to believe that hobbyists have the best intentions and want to give their pets in a glass box the best conditions/life they can.

Seemingly, I killed several Tropheus in the beginning. I gave into their constant begging which led to my continuous overfeeding. Then the fish ended up with bloat from the stress. By keeping them what I perceived as happy, I ended up killing them. Lesson learned though. I then found out that stress and hyper-aggression was what was really causing bloat rather than what is typically assumed by most.
 
  • Like
Reactions: twentyleagues and RD.
twentyleagues said:
Agreed. In dogs and cats it can and will cause gastrointestinal issues.
Click to expand...

And the same can happen with fish. Try suddenly switching up foods on a group of Tropheus sp, or any species that is prone to gastrointestinal issues (aka bloat) and the results can be the same, or far worse, than a dog or cat. See Matt's post above with regards to overfeeding - same end result.


Both Cryptobia and Spironucleus can result in similar disease scenarios on cichlid farms. Both parasites become more serious under conditions of crowding, poor sanitation, high organic load, and handling stress. Diet also may play a role in the development of the disease. It has been demonstrated in laboratory mice that changes in the intestinal bacterial flora, caused by changes in diet, can affect the presence of intestinal flagellates, suggesting greater potential for clinical disease. Enteric disease from either parasite may result in low level chronic mortality, "wasting" or poor growth.


But again, the food, no matter the brand, will be blamed. I have seen this played out countless of times over the years. Operator error quickly becomes - a case of brand xy or z food that caused the problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zanzag and twentyleagues
Wharf said:
Well put, the personification of the fish leads to the owner thinking that they are happy...when they are actually just doing what they are conditioned to do (hmm the owner or fish lol). A kid will always choose mac & cheese over brussel sprouts...hell I would. I think this personification leads to people not being able to fast fish until they accept a different food. I believe human feelings get in the way when fish start begging or not reacting as anticipated...and then human meaning is assigned to these behaviors for rationalization and justification. I am definitely guilty of this at times. Although I have an awareness of this, it is still a habitual thought thought process. Most of the time I believe I need the behavioral modification...not the fish lol. I also like to believe that hobbyists have the best intentions and want to give their pets in a glass box the best conditions/life they can.

Seemingly, I killed several Tropheus in the beginning. I gave into their constant begging which led to my continuous overfeeding. Then the fish ended up with bloat from the stress. By keeping them what I perceived as happy, I ended up killing them. Lesson learned though. I then found out that stress and hyper-aggression was what was really causing bloat rather than what is typically assumed by most.
Click to expand...
Ageed. Except on the brussel sprouts when I eat those no one is happy including me.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: xraycer and RD.
You must log in or register to reply here.
MonsterFishKeepers.com
Top Bottom