How to disinfect sand

[squint]

There may be a few inert ick cysts that can go dormant, waiting for water to return.

There's no dormant stage of ich and certainly none that is desiccation resistant. As a microbiologist, you should know this.

the sypmtom sound like its fish tb. i guess i'll throw away the sand and all other filter media and get new one. i can dsinfect the canister when i pour the bleach into the tank riight? 1 cup = 10gal?

Mycobacterium are ubiquitous in water (even tap water). M. marinum isn't the only potentially pathogenic species. A zebrafish laboratory documented its efforts to control Mycobacterium. These efforts included disinfection of incoming water and fish.

That means water change water has to be disinfected with a high dose of bleach. And new fish were obtained as embryos which often can survive a surface disinfection with bleach.

This is what it will take to keep Mycobacterium out of your system. Actually, the lab wasn't completely successful despite all those efforts.

 

[duanes]

There's no dormant stage of ich and certainly none that is desiccation resistant. As a microbiologist, you should know this.

I do know that ick appears year after year in ponds, and other water bodies that dry up, even occurring in isolated temporary desert pools in Africa.
Some carried by birds, some on fish that dry up themselves and rehydrate, or on killifish eggs in dry mud.
The idea that i is impossible for ick to have a few individuals that go into a dormant state and survive desiccation is not accurate.
I have done experiments back in the 90s in the lab where I desiccated tank water loaded with ick. And after weeks desiccation a few viable ick individuals reappeared. All it takes is one.

 

[duanes]

For those who question my methods, here is a synopsis.
I was experimenting with protein skimming fresh water at the time.
So put a fractionate on the tank with the infected fish.
The concentrated skim waste was collected, I suspected it to have more dormant cysts than straight tank water, so both used.

These samples were run thru micron filters.

and the filter pads were desiccated.


after being desiccated, each filter was weighed to compare fry weight tank water with skim waste.
Skimmer waste averaged 8 to ten times heavier than straight tank water.
Filters from the ick infected tank were allowed to sit between 4 and six weeks, then rehydrated in non-infected tank water.
With a few weeks of hydration, ick began to occur, coincidence? Maybe?
But I don't believe in absolutes when it comes to keeping fish.

 

[BIG-G]

duanes
Interesting.
So in your determination, would you say that this may explain why some people claim to have an ich outbreak months after anything new has been added to an aquarium.
Or is it plausible that fish always have ich and it takes a stress of some kind on the animal to get a full blown outbreak.

This is a subject that has always interested me.

 

[Hendre]

It could well be opportunistic, as many diseases are, or perhaps it can lie dormant for some time and a random hatch can cause issues again. Looking forward to Duane's response.

 

[MrsE88]

duanes
Interesting.
So in your determination, would you say that this may explain why some people claim to have an ich outbreak months after anything new has been added to an aquarium.
Or is it plausible that fish always have ich and it takes a stress of some kind on the animal to get a full blown outbreak.

This is a subject that has always interested me.

I have wondered the same thing.

 

[BIG-G]

I have wondered the same thing.

I also wonder about ich from the quarantine side.
When it comes to ich, does quarantine really do any good? Or is the best a person can do is insure that the fish doesn’t have an outbreak when you add it to the display?

 

[duanes]

duanes
Interesting.
So in your determination, would you say that this may explain why some people claim to have an ich outbreak months after anything new has been added to an aquarium.
Or is it plausible that fish always have ich and it takes a stress of some kind on the animal to get a full blown outbreak.

This is a subject that has always interested me.

I know some people suggest ick, is always there, but once eliminated with meds or salt, it "may " not be.
I'm not saying every ick cyst has the ability to sit dormant, but as with many other microscopic organisms, there are always a select few that have in sort of inner timer, that allow the species to continue survival in times of drought or other natural events.
My experiment showed me the accepted norm for ick, may not be all that acceptable.

 

[duanes]

I also wonder about ich from the quarantine side.
When it comes to ich, does quarantine really do any good? Or is the best a person can do is insure that the fish doesn’t have an outbreak when you add it to the display?

If one fish in a tank has ick, I believe one should assume all fish are infected (or will be soon enough, from cysts that have hatched off the fish, and ended up in the substrate).
So to me, if a main tank is infected, the quarantine of one or two fish that present symptoms may be useless.
I always recommend vacuuming substrate during an ick outbreak to lessen the chance any cysts are left to reanimate, and keep treatment long enough to catch any that do.
If you bring in a new fish, and note that in the bag it shows signs, or in your normal quarantine, that's a different story.
In that instance, keeping it in QT and out of the main tanks obviously the best action.
And if a tank becomes infected, and all fish die, I'd have no problem heavily bleaching it to make sure any dormant costs were neutralized.

 

[BIG-G]

I know some people suggest ick, is always there, but once eliminated with meds or salt, it "may " not be.
I'm not saying every ick cyst has the ability to sit dormant, but as with many other microscopic organisms, there are always a select few that have in sort of inner timer, that allow the species to continue survival in times of drought or other natural events.
My experiment showed me the accepted norm for ick, may not be all that acceptable.

I agree. Without questioning the norm there can be no advancement of knowledge.
The subject of ich is something I’ve read a lot about and there seems to be no definitive answer.
Anytime the question is posed about always being present ( in any tank that has fish anyway) It generally boils down to the parasite being dormant inside gill tissues.

For the folks that believe it’s always present anyway.

I think back through my experience and every time I’ve dealt with ich I can say it was when I added something .
So I can’t say for certain either way.