diagnosis of white bumps, not ick

[pennyg]

Have you tested your water?

Yes

If yes, what is your ammonia?

0

If yes, what is your nitrite?

0

If yes, what is your nitrate?

40

If I did not test my water...

1. ...I recognize that I will likely be asked to do a test, and that water tests are critical for solving freshwater health problems.

Do you do water changes?

Yes

What percentage of water do you change?

41-50%

How frequently do you change your water?

Every week

If I do not change my water...

1. ...I recognize that I will likely be recommended to do a water change, and water changes are critical for preventing future freshwater health problems.

hey all,
I am hoping to get help from you figuring out what is up with my chocolate cichlid.
I noticed 2 small white bumps on his head a week ago or so and thought it was just result of a tussle with the oscars tho usually the oscars back down from this tough guy.
He housed in 125 g with 2 oscars and a rhino pleco. I have had the tank and the fish for about a year and a half... the rhino was added maybe about 7 months ago?
Amm and Nitrite both at zero, Nitrate currently about 40 ppm, pH is 7.8. all tested with API kit. Did 40 to 50 percent WC on Tuesday. I keep the tank 78.4 F.
I have a couple of pictures. There are a few more spots now.
I usually do 40 percent WC every week but was sick for couple weeks and got behind on it. I run a Oase canister, the model I can't recall, and I rinse the foam sponges on a rotation except for the pre-filter I clean every water change.
It does not look like ick to me at all. No spots on any fins or tails of any of the fish.
What do you think is going on?

 

[kno4te]

Looks like little areas of fungus. Got some hith looking spots there too. Would increase ur water changes to twice a week. Also suggest reducing ur ph as ur water hardness maybe affecting the cichlid.

 

[neutrino]

Looks like little areas of fungus. Got some hith looking spots there too. Would increase ur water changes to twice a week. Also suggest reducing ur ph as ur water hardness maybe affecting the cichlid.

+1 Possibly brought on by stress if he's been tussling with the Oscars-- if there are two of them and they're pairing up at all, or simply getting bigger and feeling their oats, you might find this a recurring issue. Some of your water conditions are near the margins for a chocolate cichlid imo, temp on the low side of their range, pH approaching the high side, nitrates higher than ideal. None of them extreme but collectively not ideal.

Imo I think you'll find you'll need to treat with more than water changes, though that's a good start. Everyone has their own preferred meds and protocols-- If I saw that in one of my fish I'd go right to Melafix, raise temp a couple of degrees, lower pH a couple of tenths, try to get nitrates lower. If I didn't see improvement in some days to a week I'd go to meth blue. Not to panic, I just wouldn't want that hanging on.

Melafix-- I don't like to dose full label dosage, I typically do a low dose, something like 1/3 label dose and I find this is usually effective and reduces (doesn't compeletly eliminate) the temporary fast breathing Melafix can cause-- which is harmless ime, but I try to reduce it.

Meth blue-- old school but a go to option for me. Contrary to what some say I don't find that it messes with beneficial bacteria in well established tanks or with the way I maintain my filters (permanent bio-media supplemented with poly fluff, besides whatever sponges come with a respective filter, only thing that occasionally gets changed is the poly fluff, anything else is rinsed in non-chlorinated water). I have an older C. gibberosa kapampa, he's had an adventurous life-- that's another story, but consequently he's occasionally susceptible to a bit of fungus. With him I've found it's best to go right to the meth blue, on one occasion I had to keep it up for a few weeks to fully cure him-- there were no issues with ammonia, etc. Just my experience.

 

[neutrino]

Your tank size may also turn out to be an issue with those fish, certainly if your Oscars pair up. A 125 can seem like a big tank, but it's all a matter of scale and not so much for fish of the size yours can reach, especially if they decide they don't like each other much.

 

[pennyg]

Your tank size may also turn out to be an issue with those fish, certainly if your Oscars pair up. A 125 can seem like a big tank, but it's all a matter of scale and not so much for fish of the size yours can reach, especially if they decide they don't like each other much.

From what I have seen so far, the chocolate is the one chasing the oscars off if he feels crowded? I haven't seen more than just threats between them but the oscars might be getting bolder as they get older. All I have atm is a 55 g if I need to separate the chocolate from the oscars....not even complete, don't have a light for it yet.

+1 Possibly brought on by stress if he's been tussling with the Oscars-- if there are two of them and they're pairing up at all, or simply getting bigger and feeling their oats, you might find this a recurring issue. Some of your water conditions are near the margins for a chocolate cichlid imo, temp on the low side of their range, pH approaching the high side, nitrates higher than ideal. None of them extreme but collectively not ideal.

Imo I think you'll find you'll need to treat with more than water changes, though that's a good start. Everyone has their own preferred meds and protocols-- If I saw that in one of my fish I'd go right to Melafix, raise temp a couple of degrees, lower pH a couple of tenths, try to get nitrates lower. If I didn't see improvement in some days to a week I'd go to meth blue. Not to panic, I just wouldn't want that hanging on.

Melafix-- I don't like to dose full label dosage, I typically do a low dose, something like 1/3 label dose and I find this is usually effective and reduces (doesn't compeletly eliminate) the temporary fast breathing Melafix can cause-- which is harmless ime, but I try to reduce it.

Meth blue-- old school but a go to option for me. Contrary to what some say I don't find that it messes with beneficial bacteria in well established tanks or with the way I maintain my filters (permanent bio-media supplemented with poly fluff, besides whatever sponges come with a respective filter, only thing that occasionally gets changed is the poly fluff, anything else is rinsed in non-chlorinated water). I have an older C. gibberosa kapampa, he's had an adventurous life-- that's another story, but consequently he's occasionally susceptible to a bit of fungus. With him I've found it's best to go right to the meth blue, on one occasion I had to keep it up for a few weeks to fully cure him-- there were no issues with ammonia, etc. Just my experience.

Melafix is an antibac so if this is a fungus, it probably won't take it out? I think you're right about the temperature being on the low side though.

 

[pennyg]

Looks like little areas of fungus. Got some hith looking spots there too. Would increase ur water changes to twice a week. Also suggest reducing ur ph as ur water hardness maybe affecting the cichlid.

Thanks, I will be doing a WC again today and it is fairly easy to do twice a week.
my tap pH is 7.5 ~7.6 so reducing pH and keeping it lower is likely to be difficult. I may have some rocks I can add to the tank and see how that goes?
It could come down to taking the chocolate out and giving him his own space now that the oscars are getting mlre assertive.
6

 

[neutrino]

Melafix is an antibac so if this is a fungus, it probably won't take it out? I think you're right about the temperature being on the low side though.

Not sure, except that over the years Melafix typically works for me for the odd, occasional white spots, scuffs, cloudy eyes, etc. When it doesn't, I've found Pimafix (for fungus) is 50/50 to make much difference. If the meth blue step fails, which is rarely for me, I find the issue is internal and/or more serious.

There are other options, of course, including natural tannins, other meds, etc, but I find Melafix and meth blue inexpensive to keep around vs. more specialized meds (with shelf lives) that I rarely use or need.

...And (Edit) the closest place for me to get fish meds beyond Walmart products is 1 1/2 hours away, so I keep things simple when I can.

 

[pennyg]

Update for those who so generously replied with help....
I have increased water changes and gravem vac etc. The chocolate is definitely looking better. The spots are healing and going away.
I will also be trying to get some more appetizing pellets for him. The oscars will eat pretty much anything but the chocolate pretty much ignores anything that isn't tilapia or shrimp or the like. I have some NLS on order and if necessary I will hide it in a chunk of shrimp to get him eating better lol.
Thanks again for the help!

 

[duanes]

Above is some collection point data for this species.
Note that although pH is neutral (not that far from yours) , but the hardness, and conductivity are very low,...... in other words a very low mineral content.
Since you don't list hardness, its hard to judge, you could get that info from your cities EPA drinking water repot (sometimes general hardness is listed on your water bill, or the cities web site. If your water relatively is hard, and because your nitrate level is quite high, you might want to try mixing in a little rain water, or DI water to dilute the hardness (from the grocery store) with more a frequent water change schedule, to see if that makes a difference.
Meds are a temporary fix, and you want to get to the root of why (the cause), and clean that up.
As thse soft water fish age, that's when the raveges of elevated minerals, in combination with elevated nitrate start to rear their ugly head, as HLLE or other stress related maladies.

 

[neutrino]

Update for those who so generously replied with help....
I have increased water changes and gravem vac etc. The chocolate is definitely looking better. The spots are healing and going away.

Nice to hear it's clearing up and it was that simple. With those fish you might find an advantage to bigger water changes, anyway. Oscars are known for needing big filtration/water changes, a big chocolate cichlid is no slouch either.

Everyone has their own theory about water changes and there's a lot of variables, so I'm not preaching-- personally, I prefer doing substantial changes; depends on the tank, but some tanks typically get 50-80%, others 80-90%. Interval varies by tank, but I prefer big changes to smaller, more frequent changes. The fish like it. Of course, I'm on a well, so I don't pay for water and apart from being crazy cloudy at times (which in 20 years in this place hasn't bothered my fish while they wait for filters to clear it up), I don't have water problems that could make big water changes an issue. Also converted to sandy bottoms over 15 years ago, which freed me from the constant gravel vacuuming I used to do.

But like I say everyone has their own theory and preferences and different setups are different also.