Are some species more prone to gas bubble problems?

[FINWIN]

I'm really trying to get a handle on why my Chocolate cichlid Bobo appears to be having immune disorders as he gets bigger. He eats like a pig, grows fine, and his color isn't affected.

However this year he's battled infection and ick (posted elsewhere) for several weeks causing me to treat two tanks (I separated him to prevent heavier spread). Lately he's tossing slime coat after water changes and the micro bubbles seem to stick to him especially (he was completely covered in bubbles last w/c). Last year he was unaffected by micro bubbles but now it seems most anything kicks out his immunity.

There is an ongoing issue with a couple of tankmates that I'm working to alleviate but the new fish in QT aren't ready to go in yet. I don't doubt stress is part of this, but Bobo seems to stress more now than when he was smaller. It makes no sense, especially since he initiates 'trouble' about 40 percent of the time.

Now he appears to be developing ick again after being clear for two months. It's in the very early stages unlike before. And now the solution (new fish) is hampered by his problem.

Something about his slime coat seems to be a magnet for the bubbles and they stick for some time. The other fish get a few bubbles that pop minutes later and they are unaffected.

 

[kno4te]

Seems like a stressed out fish. Either from tankmates or ph. Chronically sick and prone to disease. Don’t think it’s ever fully recovered. These are my guesses. Why not separate the fish and control what u can ( tankamtes) and figure out what’s the underlying cause?

 

[FINWIN]

Was afraid of that possibility. I have a tub I can put him in to get him healthy. Maybe reintroduce him to the main tank with the qt fish all at the same time? The original plan was having the other fish remove stress, but Bobo seems to need some recovery in the meantime.

It's weird. If you see him up close he looks healthy as a horse. Not true, though.

If all else fails, what's a good sized tank for a 9" chocolate? I would only do that as a last resort.

 

[kno4te]

Was afraid of that possibility. I have a tub I can put him in to get him healthy. Maybe reintroduce him to the main tank with the qt fish all at the same time? The original plan was having the other fish remove stress, but Bobo seems to need some recovery in the meantime.

It's weird. If you see him up close he looks healthy as a horse. Not true, though.

If all else fails, what's a good sized tank for a 9" chocolate? I would only do that as a last resort.

If reintroducing with same tankamtes then I’d not do it. Could end up in the same place. I’d keep it solo in a 75g. Feed it some good food, low ph and clean water.

 

[FINWIN]

He seems to be a solo fish at this point. Right now I'm setting up a spare 38 for him. Not ideal, but the best I can do right now (better than the 18 gallon tub).

I realized an underlying factor is that while he was sick and recovering in the tub, Bobo refused to eat. So it probably hampered his full healing. He was treated for ich and bacterial infection for a month, and didn't eat for three weeks total. When he went back 'home' he immediately started eating.

I also think the lack of sight recognition in the tub made him not trust.

His 'for now' home is near the washroom, so w/cs can be quick and efficient. Since the main tank is being treated he'll stay there until it's done. I'll have time to set up his new place.

Will post updates in the main thread.

 

[duanes]

Seems like a stressed out fish. Either from tankmates or ph. Chronically sick and prone to disease. Don’t think it’s ever fully recovered. These are my guesses. Why not separate the fish and control what u can ( tankamtes) and figure out what’s the underlying cause?

Agree.
When you say treated and recovered, did you treat the main tank for ick.
If you removed Bobo and treated separately, the source of the problem may not have been arrested.
Once Ick is in a tank that entire tank must be treated.
Your original fish may have immunity, and be asymptomatic carriers, so each time Bobo is returned to the main tank, it gets reinfected.
What are your water parameters (pH, hardness, nitrate, etc etc )
Hypsecara are Amazonian fish that prefer a pH below 7, with little to no mineral content (low hardness, low conductivity) low nitrate (below 10ppm).
So if any of these parameters are out of line, they create stress, and disease susceptabiliy, especially with the added stress of aggressive tank mates.
Although Hypsecara look rough and tumble, they are quite timid compared to other similar looking species (Central Americans in particular).
Some catch location data below.

 

[kno4te]

There you go FINWIN . If u can control that water and tankmates. It might just stabilize.

 

[FINWIN]

Agree.
When you say treated and recovered, did you treat the main tank for ick.
If you removed Bobo and treated separately, the source of the problem may not have been arrested.
Once Ick is in a tank that entire tank must be treated.
Your original fish may have immunity, and be asymptomatic carriers, so each time Bobo is returned to the main tank, it gets reinfected.
What are your water parameters (pH, hardness, nitrate, etc etc )
Hypsecara are Amazonian fish that prefer a pH below 7, with little to no mineral content (low hardness, low conductivity) low nitrate (below 10ppm).
So if any of these parameters are out of line, they create stress, and disease susceptabiliy, especially with the added stress of aggressive tank mates.
Although Hypsecara look rough and tumble, they are quite timid compared to other similar looking species (Central Americans in particular).
Some catch location data below.
View attachment 1453153

I'll have to look up the information on the water here on DC, I think I posted it elsewhere. It's slightly to the hard side but varies from 7.4 to 7.8. I'll post the complete info here.

When Bobo got sick the last time the main tank was treated as well. The Oscar and rainbow were flashing (Oscar started getting spots). So everybody got treatment in the main tank for 3 weeks, a combination of ich x, kanaplex, and salt. I removed Bobo since he had quite a few ick cysts and I saw no reason to leave him in there to 'drop more' in the tank. Plus he had bacterial issues going on. So he was treated separately and so was the main tank. Plus he kept hiding at that point with clamped fins and dragging on the sand. He seemed to do well in QT but refused to eat, even when the spots were gone for several days.

I know for a fact the parrots were asymptomatic carriers because they never got ick but Brick got it as a baby...in fact he was covered in it suddenly one day. The little nut swam and rough housed like there was no problem! At the time they were all in the same tank so it got treated then too. That was 2 years ago.

 

[FINWIN]

Information data on the completed report from 2019.

grains per gallon 5 to 10 (average 7)

ppm 81 to 176 (average 126)

ph between 7.4 and 8.0

From the District water site:

The corrosion treatment chemical added to the water, orthophosphate, works best at a pH range of 7.0 to 8.0. The Washington Aqueduct is required to maintain a pH between 7.4 and 8.0 for water leaving the treatment plant. DC Water monitors the pH in the distribution system daily to ensure these levels stay within the optimum range for orthophosphate. DC Water has set a target range of 1.0 to 4.5 mg/L orthophosphate to target in the distribution system.

 

[duanes]

Looking at that data, I'm not surprised the Hypelecara is struggling (those are not the best water parameters for oscars either).
Because pH is quite high, and although 7 grains of hardness might not be out of line hardness for human use, it is quite a bit more mineral rich than Amazonian cichlids have evolved to live in.
These are similar to the water parameters I experienced when in the US, and I concluded that this is not great water for S American Amazonian region fish.
It would be fine for for Central Amicans, rift lake Africans, and S Americans from west of the Andes (not east) that have evolved in those parameters, or southern S Americans like the G braziliensus group.
The orthophosphate is added to prevent toxic lead from leaching into drinking water, (it coats the inner surfaces of pipes in older distribution systems), it was also added to the treatment process where I lived.