How has the coronavirus affected your personal life?
- Thread starter fishhead0103666
- Start date
- Status
Hello; The very same sort of statement can be made about the young who get the covid19 infection. It is rare that a young person has a bad case. Most have mild symptoms. Some have no symptoms at all.
Hello; The Fauci story in the most recent link I used was about fully vaccinated people wearing a mask. That within three days he made conflicting statements about masks. In one vaccinated people do not need to wear a mask and in the other they do in low vaccine rate areas. That was the point.
About the above comment you make. At some point it is possible the virus will drift enough that the immune system will no longer have in place specific response to the new
I do not think you ought to have it both ways; that the vaccines are "exceedingly effective" and also that the vaccinated need to wear a mask.
That young people who contract COVID are less often hospitalized or die of COVID than older people does not mean that they should not be vaccinated.
That young people rarely have adverse reactions to the vaccine also does not mean that they should not be vaccinated.
Why? Because leaving young people unvaccinated leaves them vulnerable to the virus in its current and future variants. It also keeps young people as a source of spreading the virus, especially to others who aren't vaccinated and to people who are immuno-compromised.
This is precisely the kind of risk-benefit analysis that our nation's finest, most experienced public health and epidemiology experts from around the nation are making as part of the CDC's COVID Advisory Group to guide policy.
As much as some would like to discredit Dr. Fauci, he is a public servant who has supported 7 Presidents through untold numbers of epidemics, pandemics and public health emergencies. President Bush awarded him the Presidential Medal of Freedom for a reason.
So why does, for example, mask policy change? We learn new things and - we hope - adjust our policies accordingly. Including maybe needing to put them back on because conditions with the virus and our efforts to get people vaccinated change.
While Fauci, along with several other US health leaders, initially advised people not to wear masks, Fauci later said that he was concerned that there wouldn’t be enough protective equipment for health care workers. This was also early in the pandemic before public health experts fully knew how contagious the disease was and how it spread.
Fauci explained that at that time, “we were not aware that 40 to 45% of people were asymptomatic, nor were we aware that a substantial proportion of people who get infected get infected from people who are without symptoms. That makes it overwhelmingly important for everyone to wear a mask.”
“So when people say, ‘Well, why did you change your stance? And why are you emphasizing masks so much now when back then you didn't -- and in fact you even said you shouldn't because there was a shortage of masks?’ Well the data now are very, very clear,” he said.
“We need to put that nonsense behind us about ‘well, they keep changing their minds,’ ” Fauci said.
As to Fauci’s other comments, while he occasionally sought to reassure Americans in the very early days of the virus, he consistently advised to follow CDC guidelines and that things could change.
That young people rarely have adverse reactions to the vaccine also does not mean that they should not be vaccinated.
Why? Because leaving young people unvaccinated leaves them vulnerable to the virus in its current and future variants. It also keeps young people as a source of spreading the virus, especially to others who aren't vaccinated and to people who are immuno-compromised.
This is precisely the kind of risk-benefit analysis that our nation's finest, most experienced public health and epidemiology experts from around the nation are making as part of the CDC's COVID Advisory Group to guide policy.
As much as some would like to discredit Dr. Fauci, he is a public servant who has supported 7 Presidents through untold numbers of epidemics, pandemics and public health emergencies. President Bush awarded him the Presidential Medal of Freedom for a reason.
So why does, for example, mask policy change? We learn new things and - we hope - adjust our policies accordingly. Including maybe needing to put them back on because conditions with the virus and our efforts to get people vaccinated change.
While Fauci, along with several other US health leaders, initially advised people not to wear masks, Fauci later said that he was concerned that there wouldn’t be enough protective equipment for health care workers. This was also early in the pandemic before public health experts fully knew how contagious the disease was and how it spread.
Fauci explained that at that time, “we were not aware that 40 to 45% of people were asymptomatic, nor were we aware that a substantial proportion of people who get infected get infected from people who are without symptoms. That makes it overwhelmingly important for everyone to wear a mask.”
“So when people say, ‘Well, why did you change your stance? And why are you emphasizing masks so much now when back then you didn't -- and in fact you even said you shouldn't because there was a shortage of masks?’ Well the data now are very, very clear,” he said.
“We need to put that nonsense behind us about ‘well, they keep changing their minds,’ ” Fauci said.
As to Fauci’s other comments, while he occasionally sought to reassure Americans in the very early days of the virus, he consistently advised to follow CDC guidelines and that things could change.
Hello; I will make a guess you are so deep into the vaccinate everybody philosophy that you do not see the flaw in the above argument. At this point young people have choices to make. Either face the very low risk of a serious covid19 infection or face the possibly low risk of a vaccine. (regardless of your belief about the vaccines the jury is still out on the risk) With a few exceptions every adult has the option to be vaccinated as a choice. It would seem the arguments which are all over the place currently have not moved some younger folks to your favored point of view.
I do not care either way as I am vaccinated. I can be around a room full of infected people and will have some protection. I likely would have virus particles on my body but will not become infected How do I know this? Because of the very strong reaction my body had to the second shot. The vaccine looks like the virus to the body so the strong reaction told me I had an immune system primed to fight any covid19 virus invasion.
I probably should not use Fauci as an example as often as I do. There are other examples of conflicting virus policy statements. But Fauci makes it so easy with continuing opposing statements. Go back to my most recent quotes of Fauci. That was not a reversal based on new information. In a real sense it does not matter how many presidents he served under or what he did in the past. What matters is how he had performed in this pandemic. From the first "good lie" about masks to the pre vaccine sports stadium photo of him without a mask sitting next to two others, to the several other conflicting statements since do count a lot.
I watch the Tour de France. There is an older announcer (Phil maybe) who has been covering the race for years. He gets things mixed up all the time. To the point I have learned to not follow him too closely. His buddy (Bob) works at keeping things straight. Phil is a tradition and since it is just a bicycle race not a big deal. I like listening to him.
EDIT- if you are going to use quotes, it would be more proper to cite the source. Add a link or something.
17-year-old diagnosed with heart issues after getting COVID vaccine (msn.com)
Hello; Here is a link to a story about a 17 year old who was required to get a vaccine to play soccer. He had the covid19 infection and recovered so had natural immunity from that as is the normal way it works. ( pre vaccine logic time- If you gat a serious infection such as covid19 and do not recover then you become one of the fatality statistics. If you get covid19 and recover then your body has stopped the ongoing invasion of body cells and your immune system is working. You might have lingering effects of being sick. Some do, but apparently this was not the case for the boy.)
So It seems he was required to get a vaccine in order to play soccer. (I have a personal opinion on this which is the naturally immune do not need a vaccine.) I am not at all bothered that the boy missed his prom, such is an emotional slant which is secondary to the main point. To me the point is he may have serious heart problems as a result.
I imagine the source of the link will be criticized. This is a usual thing lately.
I imagine some may argue the heart problem cannot be tied to the vaccine. This will be the stronger point and has to be considered. May be the boy had heart issues about to happen anyway. This heart side effect in the news is being studied.
To my way of thinking a person who recovered from the infection ought not to be compelled to take a vaccine.
Hello; Here is a link to a story about a 17 year old who was required to get a vaccine to play soccer. He had the covid19 infection and recovered so had natural immunity from that as is the normal way it works. ( pre vaccine logic time- If you gat a serious infection such as covid19 and do not recover then you become one of the fatality statistics. If you get covid19 and recover then your body has stopped the ongoing invasion of body cells and your immune system is working. You might have lingering effects of being sick. Some do, but apparently this was not the case for the boy.)
So It seems he was required to get a vaccine in order to play soccer. (I have a personal opinion on this which is the naturally immune do not need a vaccine.) I am not at all bothered that the boy missed his prom, such is an emotional slant which is secondary to the main point. To me the point is he may have serious heart problems as a result.
I imagine the source of the link will be criticized. This is a usual thing lately.
I imagine some may argue the heart problem cannot be tied to the vaccine. This will be the stronger point and has to be considered. May be the boy had heart issues about to happen anyway. This heart side effect in the news is being studied.
To my way of thinking a person who recovered from the infection ought not to be compelled to take a vaccine.
Guys, as much as i've enjoyed your discussion, at this moment a tour de France thread would be an extremely welcome distraction from all everything covid, lol.
But carry on.
Hello; start one and lets see how long it lasts. I am two days behind watching. I record the race an watch when I can. I have only one favorite and he is doing poorly so far.
I'm not "deep into the vaccinate everybody philosophy" - I'm listening to and following the recommendations of our scientists. I didn't get my 15-year-old vaccinated until the CDC and FDA said it was OK to get her vaccinated. And my younger kids (under 12) aren't vaccinated because the same is true.
Opinions on vaccination aren't "all over the place." We're awash in misinformation. That's a huge difference.
And, by the way, much of the misinformation / disinformation originates from our enemies:
Russian Disinformation Campaign Aims to Undermine Confidence in Pfizer, Other Covid-19 Vaccines, U.S. Officials Say
Websites linked to Russian intelligence services publish false information questioning vaccines’ safety, efficacy
www.wsj.com
That those peddling misinformation are "succeeding" by convincing people not to get vaccine by, for example, overstating the risks of vaccination shouldn't justify people deciding not to get vaccinated. All it proves is that too many people - for reasons that are political or conspiratorial or whatever - are motivated to believe absolute nonsense instead of the nation's scientists.
As Dr. Fauci himself stated:
“So when people say, ‘Well, why did you change your stance? And why are you emphasizing masks so much now when back then you didn't -- and in fact you even said you shouldn't because there was a shortage of masks?’ Well the data now are very, very clear,” he said.
“We need to put that nonsense behind us about ‘well, they keep changing their minds,’ ” Fauci said.
edition.cnn.com
Opinions on vaccination aren't "all over the place." We're awash in misinformation. That's a huge difference.
And, by the way, much of the misinformation / disinformation originates from our enemies:
Russian Disinformation Campaign Aims to Undermine Confidence in Pfizer, Other Covid-19 Vaccines, U.S. Officials Say
Websites linked to Russian intelligence services publish false information questioning vaccines’ safety, efficacy
WSJ News Exclusive | Russian Disinformation Campaign Aims to Undermine Confidence in Pfizer, Other Covid-19 Vaccines, U.S. Officials Say
Russian intelligence agencies are trying to undermine confidence in Pfizer’s and other Western coronavirus vaccines, using online publications that have questioned the vaccines’ development and safety, U.S. officials said.
www.wsj.com
That those peddling misinformation are "succeeding" by convincing people not to get vaccine by, for example, overstating the risks of vaccination shouldn't justify people deciding not to get vaccinated. All it proves is that too many people - for reasons that are political or conspiratorial or whatever - are motivated to believe absolute nonsense instead of the nation's scientists.
As Dr. Fauci himself stated:
“So when people say, ‘Well, why did you change your stance? And why are you emphasizing masks so much now when back then you didn't -- and in fact you even said you shouldn't because there was a shortage of masks?’ Well the data now are very, very clear,” he said.
“We need to put that nonsense behind us about ‘well, they keep changing their minds,’ ” Fauci said.
Mexico has surpassed 700,000 coronavirus cases
The coronavirus pandemic has brought countries to a standstill. In many places, as countries reopen, Covid-19 cases are on the rise. Follow here for the latest.
I cannot believe that this discussion is still circling the drain virtually unchanged from the state in which I left it days ago.
You two fellows represent the polar opposite extremes of this debate; personally I feel that, in this as in most things, either extreme is foolish to embrace completely. The correct answer, or at least the most practical and workable one, tends to be somewhere in the middle ground.
I just had my second dose of Pfizer and so will be fully vaccinated in 14 days. This will not only (IMHO) protect me to a large extent from the virus, but will also exempt me from certain restrictions imposed by both the government and my employer. I absolutely do not trust either of those entities, but they are not forcing me to get the vaccine. I have also been tested for Covid-19 37 times in the past year. Not fun, but like the vaccination, It is a free choice on my part, just as working on a jobsite that requires I be clean-shaven (which I detest) or wearing PPE that protects me from hazards to which I will never be exposed. I can choose to keep the beard, or skip the gloves or whatever, if I am willing to accept that it means the end of my job if I make that decision not to shave...or to refuse the test. It's like smoking in a restaurant; you decide which is more important to you, the cigarette or the meal.
So far, the government has not said I must be vaccinated; if they did I wouldn't be happy about the order, even though I feel the vaccine is a good idea. Pointing out an isolated instance of a young man suffering ill effects from the vaccine means little; considering the size of the sample, almost anything can be found to happen somewhere, to somebody. I'm surprised that nobody has pointed out how many people are killed or injured while driving to the vaccination centre, in an effort to show how "dangerous" vaccination is. A statistic was circulated recently stating that of the Covid deaths in a particular area, something like 99 % of them were unvaccinated. My daughter...a confirmed anti-vaxxer...triumphantly pointed out "See? See?? That means that 1% of them were vaccinated and still died!"
I can't wait to come back here in another week or so and see how this thread has progressed...or if it has at all, because it seems to have gotten "vociferously stagnant" since my last visit.
You two fellows represent the polar opposite extremes of this debate; personally I feel that, in this as in most things, either extreme is foolish to embrace completely. The correct answer, or at least the most practical and workable one, tends to be somewhere in the middle ground.
I just had my second dose of Pfizer and so will be fully vaccinated in 14 days. This will not only (IMHO) protect me to a large extent from the virus, but will also exempt me from certain restrictions imposed by both the government and my employer. I absolutely do not trust either of those entities, but they are not forcing me to get the vaccine. I have also been tested for Covid-19 37 times in the past year. Not fun, but like the vaccination, It is a free choice on my part, just as working on a jobsite that requires I be clean-shaven (which I detest) or wearing PPE that protects me from hazards to which I will never be exposed. I can choose to keep the beard, or skip the gloves or whatever, if I am willing to accept that it means the end of my job if I make that decision not to shave...or to refuse the test. It's like smoking in a restaurant; you decide which is more important to you, the cigarette or the meal.
So far, the government has not said I must be vaccinated; if they did I wouldn't be happy about the order, even though I feel the vaccine is a good idea. Pointing out an isolated instance of a young man suffering ill effects from the vaccine means little; considering the size of the sample, almost anything can be found to happen somewhere, to somebody. I'm surprised that nobody has pointed out how many people are killed or injured while driving to the vaccination centre, in an effort to show how "dangerous" vaccination is. A statistic was circulated recently stating that of the Covid deaths in a particular area, something like 99 % of them were unvaccinated. My daughter...a confirmed anti-vaxxer...triumphantly pointed out "See? See?? That means that 1% of them were vaccinated and still died!"
I can't wait to come back here in another week or so and see how this thread has progressed...or if it has at all, because it seems to have gotten "vociferously stagnant" since my last visit.
How is it "extreme" to follow the CDC's guidance and voluntarily get vaccinated?
Somewhere in the middle is, unfortunately, where we are in the US: lots of people vaccinated and more than enough vaccine to go around... but not enough people vaccinated to really be through with this.
Because there's enough misinformation, ignorance and selfishness in our country for enough people to think that getting vaccinated is "a gamble" or that getting vaccinated will give you COVID, or that it's not necessary, or that it will inject you with a microchip or all the other nonsense, we can expect continued risk for young children, the immune-suppressed, and thousands more Americans sick or dead... along with associated impacts on our lives and economy, especially in places where vaccination rates are low.
We're all in this together.
Somewhere in the middle is, unfortunately, where we are in the US: lots of people vaccinated and more than enough vaccine to go around... but not enough people vaccinated to really be through with this.
Because there's enough misinformation, ignorance and selfishness in our country for enough people to think that getting vaccinated is "a gamble" or that getting vaccinated will give you COVID, or that it's not necessary, or that it will inject you with a microchip or all the other nonsense, we can expect continued risk for young children, the immune-suppressed, and thousands more Americans sick or dead... along with associated impacts on our lives and economy, especially in places where vaccination rates are low.
We're all in this together.
I cannot believe that this discussion is still circling the drain virtually unchanged from the state in which I left it days ago.
You two fellows represent the polar opposite extremes of this debate; personally I feel that, in this as in most things, either extreme is foolish to embrace completely. The correct answer, or at least the most practical and workable one, tends to be somewhere in the middle ground.
I just had my second dose of Pfizer and so will be fully vaccinated in 14 days. This will not only (IMHO) protect me to a large extent from the virus, but will also exempt me from certain restrictions imposed by both the government and my employer. I absolutely do not trust either of those entities, but they are not forcing me to get the vaccine. I have also been tested for Covid-19 37 times in the past year. Not fun, but like the vaccination, It is a free choice on my part, just as working on a jobsite that requires I be clean-shaven (which I detest) or wearing PPE that protects me from hazards to which I will never be exposed. I can choose to keep the beard, or skip the gloves or whatever, if I am willing to accept that it means the end of my job if I make that decision not to shave...or to refuse the test. It's like smoking in a restaurant; you decide which is more important to you, the cigarette or the meal.
So far, the government has not said I must be vaccinated; if they did I wouldn't be happy about the order, even though I feel the vaccine is a good idea. Pointing out an isolated instance of a young man suffering ill effects from the vaccine means little; considering the size of the sample, almost anything can be found to happen somewhere, to somebody. I'm surprised that nobody has pointed out how many people are killed or injured while driving to the vaccination centre, in an effort to show how "dangerous" vaccination is. A statistic was circulated recently stating that of the Covid deaths in a particular area, something like 99 % of them were unvaccinated. My daughter...a confirmed anti-vaxxer...triumphantly pointed out "See? See?? That means that 1% of them were vaccinated and still died!"
I can't wait to come back here in another week or so and see how this thread has progressed...or if it has at all, because it seems to have gotten "vociferously stagnant" since my last visit.
- Status
