What is a biotope?

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only one that know of duanes duanes

I dunno...doesn't duanes duanes keep fish and plants collected from a lake that is filled with invasives? Lake Gatun, I think?

As far as the biotope idea is concerned, I'd bet that he is the purists' purist...but true purist perfection must elude even him. Does he collect his substrate from the same lake as the fish? Do some of his fish/shrimp come from the lake, while others are collected in various other streams or bodies of water? Does he utilize driftwood found on the beach, which might have come from hundreds or thousands of kilometers away? If any of those caveats are true, well...you see where I'm going...

It's just not realistic to hope for true biotopic perfection. One does what makes one happy.
 
I must say I also love the term 'liberal Earth biotope'.

Although other definitions may vary from this (which jjohnwm nicely outlines), to me, a biotope is a group of fish in a tank that come from the same ecozone (biogeographical realm) at its loosest. This is largely influenced by my many visits to my local zoo, as that's how they split the exhibits.

To elaborate, I would consider fish in a tank together from any country within that realm a biotope. For example, you might have roseline sharks with zebra loaches as an Indo-Malayan biotope since both are from the Western Ghats of India, but it's still a biotope if you add in some Vietnamese weather loaches or Indonesian kuhli loaches since those countries are also in Indo-Malaya.
 
I dunno...doesn't duanes duanes keep fish and plants collected from a lake that is filled with invasives? Lake Gatun, I think?

As far as the biotope idea is concerned, I'd bet that he is the purists' purist...but true purist perfection must elude even him. Does he collect his substrate from the same lake as the fish? Do some of his fish/shrimp come from the lake, while others are collected in various other streams or bodies of water? Does he utilize driftwood found on the beach, which might have come from hundreds or thousands of kilometers away? If any of those caveats are true, well...you see where I'm going...

It's just not realistic to hope for true biotopic perfection. One does what makes one happy.
I dunno..I guess he could reply here?
 
Is there even a valid argument to say that a "biotope" in a glass box in your living room, wherever it's from and however close to perfection it is, by definition, is an impossible goal, simply because it's not naturally situated.

If you owned a lake, and went snorkeling in it, then you could say you had a true natural biotope I suppose, whereas the one in your living room isn't a natural biotope.

But then taking it even further, with whatever invasives may be in your lake, even that wouldn't be a true natural biotope, and let's face it, invasives are extremely widespread globally.

True natural biotopes, I suspect, are quite rare. They're evolving constantly from how they originally began.
 
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To elaborate, I would consider fish in a tank together from any country within that realm a biotope. For example, you might have roseline sharks with zebra loaches as an Indo-Malayan biotope since both are from the Western Ghats of India, but it's still a biotope if you add in some Vietnamese weather loaches or Indonesian kuhli loaches since those countries are also in Indo-Malaya.

When I lived in Ontario, I could have stocked a single tank with brook trout from a clear, oxygen-rich stream...along with Umbra mudminnows from a stagnant blackwater peat swamp...and bullheads from a muddy river...and all these species could have been collected on the same day...by a single person literally walking from one collection point to the next. I believe that by your definition, that would be a biotope tank...but I certainly wouldn't think of it that way.

To be even more extreme...I could collect various species of dace or shiners at the surface of the lake...and burbot or whitefish from 80 feet down at the exact same point...and keep them together. Is that a biotope?

The phrase "subject to interpretation" doesn't even scratch the surface regarding this topic. :)

Edited to add: I just saw esoxlucius esoxlucius post above. Makes me wonder even more; dangerous, I know.

Would that living room tank be a biotope if, and only if, you actually collected the water on site as well?
 
By that logic,why even use a glass box?
why not just dig a hole in your backyard a build a stream or even better......... buy the lake! :)

Exactly!

Or...perhaps even simpler...don't worry about all this nonsense and just enjoy your fish. :)
 
When I lived in Ontario, I could have stocked a single tank with brook trout from a clear, oxygen-rich stream...along with Umbra mudminnows from a stagnant blackwater peat swamp...and bullheads from a muddy river...and all these species could have been collected on the same day...by a single person literally walking from one collection point to the next. I believe that by your definition, that would be a biotope tank...but I certainly wouldn't think of it that way.

To be even more extreme...I could collect various species of dace or shiners at the surface of the lake...and burbot or whitefish from 80 feet down at the exact same point...and keep them together. Is that a biotope?

Even when you put it that way, I still would say yes, that is a biotope. Wow, all those visits to the zoo when I was small really influenced my views on this ? ?

[/QUOTE] The phrase "subject to interpretation" doesn't even scratch the surface regarding this topic. :) [/QUOTE]

:iagree:
 
I wonder what the mfk community thinks about biotypes evolving and changing on their own without human intervention.

Let's say there are 3 bodies of water all connected by small streams, a fish that has only been found in the first body has wandered down two streams into the third body of water and is now established and vastly out competing the species that were there before it.

This is similar to when someone introduces a non native fish that then settles in too well and out competes the other however this the fish species I described was not introduced as it was already there and merely wandered a bit further than its normal ranges. So, when I personally think about it I find myself asking a single question. "Are we against the fish taking over or are we against the fact that the fish was not there in the beginning?" That's what I would like purists to ponder on their own.
 
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I wonder what the mfk community thinks about biotypes evolving and changing on their own without human intervention.

Let's say there are 3 bodies of water all connected by small streams, a fish that has only been found in the first body has wandered down two streams into the third body of water and is now established and vastly out competing the species that were there before it.

This is similar to when someone introduces a non native fish that then settles in too well and out competes the other however this the fish species I described was not introduced as it was already there and merely wandered a bit further than its normal ranges. So, when I personally think about it I find myself asking a single question. "Are we against the fish taking over or are we against the fact that the fish was not there in the beginning?" That's what I would like purists to ponder on their own.

I'll respond to this only because you deserve to start having the same type of headache that this thread is giving me. :)

There are plenty of instances of animals extending their own ranges, sometimes due entirely to natural conditions, more often due to artificial changes brought about by human activity. When I was a youngster, coyotes were uncommon enough in Ontario that seeing or shooting one was notable news. Today, you can't throw a snowball without hitting a yote. They have spread eastward right to the coast, and their numbers are burgeoning. The prevalent thinking seems to be that they are occupying areas that were always available to them, but from which they were in the past excluded by timber wolves and other large predators. Today, as the world continues to be coated with an ever-thickening layer of people, those big predators have been eliminated from vast parts of their ancestral range, allowing the smaller, more adaptable coyotes to move eastward. Is that good or bad? Ask a city dweller and a sheep farmer and you can expect two very different answers.

The cottage lake we frequented in Ontario was a man-made body of water, created by the construction of a dam many years earlier. The lake had always been devoid of Northern Pike; that's right, a mid-northern Ontario lake without pike...almost unheard-of. What the lake did house was a healthy population of Muskellunge. Muskies are essentially pike on steroids...bigger and meaner, but often unable to compete with pike due to the fact that pike fry hatch a wee bit earlier in the spring than muskies and tend to feed on the muskies when they appear.

One spring, an especially high amount of snow-melt and spring rain raised water levels to the point where numerous beaver dams, small streams and other flowing water bodies became temporarily connected. It was an unusual season; I caught my personal-best Speckled Trout with my bare hands, right in the middle of my lawn! And...it allowed a number of pike to find their way into the cottage lake. Within a year or two, we were catching pike...some quite large...alongside muskies. Was that good or bad?

We were afraid of losing "our" muskies, which would be bad. We were, however, now catching big pike, which tend to be easier to catch and provide more entertainment for more anglers, so...that was good. Add to that the fact that, in some...not all...bodies of water housing both species, a naturally-occurring hybrid of the two called a Tiger Muskie was known to occur. Would this happen in our lake? Would that be good or bad?

A man-made lake...being invaded by a native species not previously found in that particular lake...which provided excellent fishing opportunities...but threatened to eliminate another native species...but which might also live harmoniously side-by-side with that species...and might also produce that most controversial of animals, i.e. a hybrid.

Wow. Good? Bad? Natural? Artificial? Let it happen? Try to prevent it? Wait and see what happens?

Somebody's screwing up my biotope!!!
 
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